5 ms·

14m trees have been cut down in Scotland to make way for wind farms (2020)

16 points by freedude 3y ago

freedude 3y ago
Scotland Admits Chopping Down 16 Million Trees to Make Way for ‘Green’ Wind Energy Farms
- 14 3y ago
  We know trees can soak up carbon but also the wind farms will reduce carbon emissions. My guess is that over the lifespan of the wind farms the carbon reduction will be greater then the reduced carbon pulled from the trees. Also when trees die they eventually release their carbon even if that is a slow process.
hypeit 3y ago
How many trees have they chopped down to make golf courses? That seems like a much bigger issue.
foota 3y ago
Scotland is aiming to replant 15,000 hectares per year, and removed 7,858 hectares for wind turbines. Seems like a fair trade.
gareth_untether 3y ago
I don’t understand why they’re using wind over tidal energy. Surely a similar scale tidal power farm would be preferable to felling 16M trees?
- foota 3y ago
  Isn't tidal energy largely untested compared to wind energy?
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Tidal has been tried many times in small settings. A couple of observations: - players in the 'tidal' renewable space are excellent at consuming subsidies, not so good at making (net) power - tidal installations designed to work for a decade typically work for a few weeks, months at best without on site repairs or outright failure - moving water carries momentum to the point that it is a very fine line between power extraction and equipment failure - salt water under pressure is a hostile environment Making a wind turbine with a nacelle a good 75 meters above the sea live under those conditions is already pretty hard. Doing the same with an immersed generator below the surface of the sea is extremely hard. I've yet to see a tidal energy installation that I found credible, and besides, the real movement in the tides is only a few hours per day at best. Yes, there is energy in the tides. Lots of it. But it's hard to harvest economically, and if it were the only option I'd say keep trying, but we have better and cheaper options already.
jacquesm 3y ago
This is traceable to a 2014 article in the Telegraph, a UK conservative publication that had a strong anti-wind power bent and the article leaves out a ton of relevant detail. The original Telegraph article is here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10546071/Millions-of-trees-chopped-down-to-make-way-for-Scottish-wind-farms.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10546071/Millions-... Meanwhile, a survey under Telegraph readers has seen them overwhelmingly support renewables. Yes, trees are being cut down to make room for windmills, but there are also trees being replanted (but not enough, yet). Most windparks are sited away from woodlands, because woodlands tend to have turbulent wind. But access roads to windparks are another matter and this is where a large amount of this logging comes from, besides trees that would have been logged regardless of whether windparks would be built. Finally, Scotland has over 1.6 million acres of forestland, to put that figure a bit into perspective.
mschuster91 3y ago
To use a proper source instead of this site that boasts far-right conspiratorial headlines like "Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum: The New Fascism", follow to the original [1]. Particularly telling is that the site neglected to copy over this paragraph: > “The figure for trees felled for windfarm development on Scotland’s forests and land, as managed by FLS, over the past 20 years is 13.9 million. However, it should be noted that these trees – being a commercial crop – will have eventually have been felled and passed into the timber supply chain in any case.” Basically the same bullshit that we saw in Germany with Tesla's factory in Brandenburg which was also set on the site of a wood farm... just as here, the far-right conveniently ignored this aspect when whining "don't you care about these trees????". [1] https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18270734.14m-trees-cut-scotland-make-way-wind-farms/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18270734.14m-trees-cut-s...
- dang 3y ago
  Ok, we've changed to that from https://slaynews.com/news/scotland-chopping-down-16-million-trees-make-way-green-wind-energy-farms/ https://slaynews.com/news/scotland-chopping-down-16-million-.... Thanks!
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    That's a 2020 article.
    - dang 3y ago
      I've added the year. Thanks!
- hitpointdrew 3y ago
  > “ Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum: The New Fascism” I mean it’s not wrong. Have you read Klaus’s books? He is pretty open about the new era he wants to usher via the WEF.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
gnabgib 3y ago
Previously: 25pts, 7 days ago, 8 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36942168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36942168

16 points by freedude 3y ago

freedude 3y ago

Scotland Admits Chopping Down 16 Million Trees to Make Way for ‘Green’ Wind Energy Farms

14 3y ago
We know trees can soak up carbon but also the wind farms will reduce carbon emissions. My guess is that over the lifespan of the wind farms the carbon reduction will be greater then the reduced carbon pulled from the trees. Also when trees die they eventually release their carbon even if that is a slow process.

hypeit 3y ago

How many trees have they chopped down to make golf courses? That seems like a much bigger issue.

foota 3y ago

Scotland is aiming to replant 15,000 hectares per year, and removed 7,858 hectares for wind turbines. Seems like a fair trade.

gareth_untether 3y ago

I don’t understand why they’re using wind over tidal energy. Surely a similar scale tidal power farm would be preferable to felling 16M trees?

foota 3y ago
Isn't tidal energy largely untested compared to wind energy?
jacquesm 3y ago
Tidal has been tried many times in small settings. A couple of observations: - players in the 'tidal' renewable space are excellent at consuming subsidies, not so good at making (net) power - tidal installations designed to work for a decade typically work for a few weeks, months at best without on site repairs or outright failure - moving water carries momentum to the point that it is a very fine line between power extraction and equipment failure - salt water under pressure is a hostile environment Making a wind turbine with a nacelle a good 75 meters above the sea live under those conditions is already pretty hard. Doing the same with an immersed generator below the surface of the sea is extremely hard. I've yet to see a tidal energy installation that I found credible, and besides, the real movement in the tides is only a few hours per day at best. Yes, there is energy in the tides. Lots of it. But it's hard to harvest economically, and if it were the only option I'd say keep trying, but we have better and cheaper options already.

jacquesm 3y ago

This is traceable to a 2014 article in the Telegraph, a UK conservative publication that had a strong anti-wind power bent and the article leaves out a ton of relevant detail. The original Telegraph article is here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10546071/Millions-of-trees-chopped-down-to-make-way-for-Scottish-wind-farms.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10546071/Millions-... Meanwhile, a survey under Telegraph readers has seen them overwhelmingly support renewables. Yes, trees are being cut down to make room for windmills, but there are also trees being replanted (but not enough, yet). Most windparks are sited away from woodlands, because woodlands tend to have turbulent wind. But access roads to windparks are another matter and this is where a large amount of this logging comes from, besides trees that would have been logged regardless of whether windparks would be built. Finally, Scotland has over 1.6 million acres of forestland, to put that figure a bit into perspective.

mschuster91 3y ago

To use a proper source instead of this site that boasts far-right conspiratorial headlines like "Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum: The New Fascism", follow to the original [1]. Particularly telling is that the site neglected to copy over this paragraph: > “The figure for trees felled for windfarm development on Scotland’s forests and land, as managed by FLS, over the past 20 years is 13.9 million. However, it should be noted that these trees – being a commercial crop – will have eventually have been felled and passed into the timber supply chain in any case.” Basically the same bullshit that we saw in Germany with Tesla's factory in Brandenburg which was also set on the site of a wood farm... just as here, the far-right conveniently ignored this aspect when whining "don't you care about these trees????". [1] https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18270734.14m-trees-cut-scotland-make-way-wind-farms/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18270734.14m-trees-cut-s...

dang 3y ago
Ok, we've changed to that from https://slaynews.com/news/scotland-chopping-down-16-million-trees-make-way-green-wind-energy-farms/ https://slaynews.com/news/scotland-chopping-down-16-million-.... Thanks!
- jacquesm 3y ago
  That's a 2020 article.
  - dang 3y ago
    I've added the year. Thanks!
hitpointdrew 3y ago
> “ Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum: The New Fascism” I mean it’s not wrong. Have you read Klaus’s books? He is pretty open about the new era he wants to usher via the WEF.
- jacquesm 3y ago

gnabgib 3y ago

Previously: 25pts, 7 days ago, 8 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36942168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36942168