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There is plenty of hyper partisan vitriol and culture war that comes from the extremist left as well. You just might not see it because you agree with their po

There is plenty of hyper partisan vitriol and culture war that comes from the extremist left as well. You just might not see it because you agree with their positions on the issues. For example, there are some on the left that very seriously want to label all Republican voters as far-right extremists, which is itself a very extreme position to take.

Eji1700 3y ago
It also ignores the reality that there's some level of conservative who's not really represented right now. I've known people who straight up left the party after voting red their entire lives because of Trump. They, sincerely, believe in smaller government and less spending, both things the party has totally abandoned even ignoring Trumps horrific actions. They're, for the most part, liberal in other aspects to varying degrees (abortion, drugs, whatever. Lots of "I may not like all of it but if that's the way it is i'll live with it"), but are tired of being told they're equivalent to the KKK because they're not sure how they feel about gender pronouns. Focusing on questions that'll never have clear answers has been one of the best things to split apart power for reasonable and critical change. The little discussion that occurs seems to be around nebulous goals rather than concrete examples like housing, food, science.
- jfengel 3y ago
  Trump got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016, and in both cases he got record numbers of votes (though fewer than his opponent). There are surely some people who left the party, but not a significant number. Not enough to make even a blip in the party's overall policy. And honestly, I've got little sympathy for them if they really are drawing an equivalence between being called names, and a party who is on a path to re-nominate a candidate who conspicuously violated national security and spread conspiracy theories about the election. (The indictment is quite clear that he was told they were false.) They just don't seem even faintly on par, and it's frankly dishonest to suggest that the name-calling is Democratic policy. Even most of what they supposedly believe about "small government" is partisan lies. The Republican party hasn't even pretended to make a significant cut in government spending. They just point at a few culture-war elements that amount to a rounding error, and then balk at actually authorizing debt for the massive programs their own budget calls for. Right now those people have a choice of at least trying to make a difference -- either within the Republican party by insisting on the nomination of non-insane candidates, or by trying to transform the Democratic party. They'll find a lot more moderate Democrats who believe very similarly, and who are much closer to the levers of power than the most extreme elements who are the only ones that make Fox News. But right now it sounds like the people you refer to are heavily invested in partisan propaganda, even if they're not willing to actually vote for it.
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    The thing you're glossing over is that a lot of Trump voters weren't really voting "for" Trump so much as against Democrats. This also happens on the other side as well, most people I know that supported Biden only did so because he wasn't Trump. Democrats have some policy positions that are troubling for a lot of voters. Gun control is a big one. Much of rural America will vote against Democrats every time just on that one issue alone. Also, defunding the police is unpopular with many voters. There are also many who have moral concerns about gender transition surgeries for minors or allowing biological males to compete in women's sports. Also, the quality of Democrat candidates for 2016 and 2020 was very low.
    - jfengel 3y ago
      Regardless of the opinion of the Democratic candidates, they were not literally criminals, and not obviously incompetent. I don't particularly care if you voted for Biden only because he wasn't Trump. That seems like kind of the absolute bare minimum level of agreement -- one that tens of millions of Americans fell below. With it, we can at least pretend to hold a national conversation about policy issues you're discussing. Without it, the entire proposition of democracy appears to fall apart.
      - lockhouse 3y ago
        > Regardless of the opinion of the Democratic candidates, they were not literally criminals What crime was Trump convicted of?
        freshpots 3y ago
        Many things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_and_business_legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_and_business_legal_af... and accused of many more, additionally, indicted for over a dozen more. His foundation was convicted of stealing from a cancer charity, his fake university defrauded students: "Donald Trump was found to have defrauded students, and was forced to pay $25 million in restitution." At this point, if you ask such a question, you are exposing yourself as either ignorant, a blind supporter, or a sea lion. This is not acceptable behavior and you should know it, just like Trump's behavior. Especially the highly documented criminal behavior related to Jan 6th and stealing classified documents, hiding them from investigators, lying about it, etc. At this point if you are not aware of this.....it appears that you have decided to be for whatever reasons you chose. It is time to reevaluate how/what you believe in.
soco 3y ago
As other commenters put in better words, no, not all voters are like that, but the collective results of their voting is a failed coup and more actions again already mentioned in other comments. So whatever was in people's minds, their deeds and their results are what counts in the end. Causes? Internet, bi-partisanship, not creating but heavily amplifying...

Eji1700 3y ago

It also ignores the reality that there's some level of conservative who's not really represented right now. I've known people who straight up left the party after voting red their entire lives because of Trump. They, sincerely, believe in smaller government and less spending, both things the party has totally abandoned even ignoring Trumps horrific actions. They're, for the most part, liberal in other aspects to varying degrees (abortion, drugs, whatever. Lots of "I may not like all of it but if that's the way it is i'll live with it"), but are tired of being told they're equivalent to the KKK because they're not sure how they feel about gender pronouns. Focusing on questions that'll never have clear answers has been one of the best things to split apart power for reasonable and critical change. The little discussion that occurs seems to be around nebulous goals rather than concrete examples like housing, food, science.

jfengel 3y ago
Trump got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016, and in both cases he got record numbers of votes (though fewer than his opponent). There are surely some people who left the party, but not a significant number. Not enough to make even a blip in the party's overall policy. And honestly, I've got little sympathy for them if they really are drawing an equivalence between being called names, and a party who is on a path to re-nominate a candidate who conspicuously violated national security and spread conspiracy theories about the election. (The indictment is quite clear that he was told they were false.) They just don't seem even faintly on par, and it's frankly dishonest to suggest that the name-calling is Democratic policy. Even most of what they supposedly believe about "small government" is partisan lies. The Republican party hasn't even pretended to make a significant cut in government spending. They just point at a few culture-war elements that amount to a rounding error, and then balk at actually authorizing debt for the massive programs their own budget calls for. Right now those people have a choice of at least trying to make a difference -- either within the Republican party by insisting on the nomination of non-insane candidates, or by trying to transform the Democratic party. They'll find a lot more moderate Democrats who believe very similarly, and who are much closer to the levers of power than the most extreme elements who are the only ones that make Fox News. But right now it sounds like the people you refer to are heavily invested in partisan propaganda, even if they're not willing to actually vote for it.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  The thing you're glossing over is that a lot of Trump voters weren't really voting "for" Trump so much as against Democrats. This also happens on the other side as well, most people I know that supported Biden only did so because he wasn't Trump. Democrats have some policy positions that are troubling for a lot of voters. Gun control is a big one. Much of rural America will vote against Democrats every time just on that one issue alone. Also, defunding the police is unpopular with many voters. There are also many who have moral concerns about gender transition surgeries for minors or allowing biological males to compete in women's sports. Also, the quality of Democrat candidates for 2016 and 2020 was very low.
  - jfengel 3y ago
    Regardless of the opinion of the Democratic candidates, they were not literally criminals, and not obviously incompetent. I don't particularly care if you voted for Biden only because he wasn't Trump. That seems like kind of the absolute bare minimum level of agreement -- one that tens of millions of Americans fell below. With it, we can at least pretend to hold a national conversation about policy issues you're discussing. Without it, the entire proposition of democracy appears to fall apart.
    - lockhouse 3y ago
      > Regardless of the opinion of the Democratic candidates, they were not literally criminals What crime was Trump convicted of?
      - freshpots 3y ago
        Many things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_and_business_legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_and_business_legal_af... and accused of many more, additionally, indicted for over a dozen more. His foundation was convicted of stealing from a cancer charity, his fake university defrauded students: "Donald Trump was found to have defrauded students, and was forced to pay $25 million in restitution." At this point, if you ask such a question, you are exposing yourself as either ignorant, a blind supporter, or a sea lion. This is not acceptable behavior and you should know it, just like Trump's behavior. Especially the highly documented criminal behavior related to Jan 6th and stealing classified documents, hiding them from investigators, lying about it, etc. At this point if you are not aware of this.....it appears that you have decided to be for whatever reasons you chose. It is time to reevaluate how/what you believe in.

soco 3y ago

As other commenters put in better words, no, not all voters are like that, but the collective results of their voting is a failed coup and more actions again already mentioned in other comments. So whatever was in people's minds, their deeds and their results are what counts in the end. Causes? Internet, bi-partisanship, not creating but heavily amplifying...