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We have seen the enemy and it is us. Hyper partisanship and the culture war are tearing the very fabric of America apart.

locopati 3y ago
If only people would stop voting for the extremist right wing party responsible for both of those things.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  There is plenty of hyper partisan vitriol and culture war that comes from the extremist left as well. You just might not see it because you agree with their positions on the issues. For example, there are some on the left that very seriously want to label all Republican voters as far-right extremists, which is itself a very extreme position to take.
  - Eji1700 3y ago
    It also ignores the reality that there's some level of conservative who's not really represented right now. I've known people who straight up left the party after voting red their entire lives because of Trump. They, sincerely, believe in smaller government and less spending, both things the party has totally abandoned even ignoring Trumps horrific actions. They're, for the most part, liberal in other aspects to varying degrees (abortion, drugs, whatever. Lots of "I may not like all of it but if that's the way it is i'll live with it"), but are tired of being told they're equivalent to the KKK because they're not sure how they feel about gender pronouns. Focusing on questions that'll never have clear answers has been one of the best things to split apart power for reasonable and critical change. The little discussion that occurs seems to be around nebulous goals rather than concrete examples like housing, food, science.
    - jfengel 3y ago
      Trump got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016, and in both cases he got record numbers of votes (though fewer than his opponent). There are surely some people who left the party, but not a significant number. Not enough to make even a blip in the party's overall policy. And honestly, I've got little sympathy for them if they really are drawing an equivalence between being called names, and a party who is on a path to re-nominate a candidate who conspicuously violated national security and spread conspiracy theories about the election. (The indictment is quite clear that he was told they were false.) They just don't seem even faintly on par, and it's frankly dishonest to suggest that the name-calling is Democratic policy. Even most of what they supposedly believe about "small government" is partisan lies. The Republican party hasn't even pretended to make a significant cut in government spending. They just point at a few culture-war elements that amount to a rounding error, and then balk at actually authorizing debt for the massive programs their own budget calls for. Right now those people have a choice of at least trying to make a difference -- either within the Republican party by insisting on the nomination of non-insane candidates, or by trying to transform the Democratic party. They'll find a lot more moderate Democrats who believe very similarly, and who are much closer to the levers of power than the most extreme elements who are the only ones that make Fox News. But right now it sounds like the people you refer to are heavily invested in partisan propaganda, even if they're not willing to actually vote for it.
      - lockhouse 3y ago
        The thing you're glossing over is that a lot of Trump voters weren't really voting "for" Trump so much as against Democrats. This also happens on the other side as well, most people I know that supported Biden only did so because he wasn't Trump. Democrats have some policy positions that are troubling for a lot of voters. Gun control is a big one. Much of rural America will vote against Democrats every time just on that one issue alone. Also, defunding the police is unpopular with many voters. There are also many who have moral concerns about gender transition surgeries for minors or allowing biological males to compete in women's sports. Also, the quality of Democrat candidates for 2016 and 2020 was very low.
        jfengel 3y ago
  - soco 3y ago
    As other commenters put in better words, no, not all voters are like that, but the collective results of their voting is a failed coup and more actions again already mentioned in other comments. So whatever was in people's minds, their deeds and their results are what counts in the end. Causes? Internet, bi-partisanship, not creating but heavily amplifying...
- Incipient 3y ago
  Sorry to say but both of your sides are just bonkers. You've left any sense of centerism well behind. The left has 4 year olds going through gender reassignment surgery, and...well the right take your pick lol. Now if it's the politicians driving people to be more extreme, or a more extreme population being reflected in politics, I don't know.
  - freshpots 3y ago
    "The left has 4 year olds going through gender reassignment surgery..." Source? No one is performing surgery on children to reassign their "gender" last time I looked at any credible source. However, I would love to see where these claims come from and the facts that substantiate them.
equality_1138 3y ago
Could be the other way around. Failed leadership in the ruling class is promoting culture war and strife as a scapegoat. Quite easy to see the rise of race hate correlated with bank bailouts and occupy movement. Immigration won't fix the inequality problem, but could definitely fuel "partisanship"
klabb3 3y ago
The media and political system is today a charade of allowed opinions limited to identity politics, which does not threaten the established order. Even if you compare with Clinton and Bush eras, there’s a stark degradation of discussion and the “zoo-like” behavior of politicians. It’s even deliberately entertainment a lot of times, like a mix of reality TV and team sports. The US is fascinating, because unlike other countries with extreme wealth inequality it has an admirably free press and speech. There are few things that gets you in serious trouble – it’s almost all carrot-regulated. To get a lot of influence you have to play by the “rules”. A simpler way of saying this is of course that media is just aggressive for-profit ventures. Thus censorship is mostly deemed unnecessary (except during Covid when the stick came out for a while).

locopati 3y ago

If only people would stop voting for the extremist right wing party responsible for both of those things.

lockhouse 3y ago
There is plenty of hyper partisan vitriol and culture war that comes from the extremist left as well. You just might not see it because you agree with their positions on the issues. For example, there are some on the left that very seriously want to label all Republican voters as far-right extremists, which is itself a very extreme position to take.
- Eji1700 3y ago
  It also ignores the reality that there's some level of conservative who's not really represented right now. I've known people who straight up left the party after voting red their entire lives because of Trump. They, sincerely, believe in smaller government and less spending, both things the party has totally abandoned even ignoring Trumps horrific actions. They're, for the most part, liberal in other aspects to varying degrees (abortion, drugs, whatever. Lots of "I may not like all of it but if that's the way it is i'll live with it"), but are tired of being told they're equivalent to the KKK because they're not sure how they feel about gender pronouns. Focusing on questions that'll never have clear answers has been one of the best things to split apart power for reasonable and critical change. The little discussion that occurs seems to be around nebulous goals rather than concrete examples like housing, food, science.
  - jfengel 3y ago
    Trump got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016, and in both cases he got record numbers of votes (though fewer than his opponent). There are surely some people who left the party, but not a significant number. Not enough to make even a blip in the party's overall policy. And honestly, I've got little sympathy for them if they really are drawing an equivalence between being called names, and a party who is on a path to re-nominate a candidate who conspicuously violated national security and spread conspiracy theories about the election. (The indictment is quite clear that he was told they were false.) They just don't seem even faintly on par, and it's frankly dishonest to suggest that the name-calling is Democratic policy. Even most of what they supposedly believe about "small government" is partisan lies. The Republican party hasn't even pretended to make a significant cut in government spending. They just point at a few culture-war elements that amount to a rounding error, and then balk at actually authorizing debt for the massive programs their own budget calls for. Right now those people have a choice of at least trying to make a difference -- either within the Republican party by insisting on the nomination of non-insane candidates, or by trying to transform the Democratic party. They'll find a lot more moderate Democrats who believe very similarly, and who are much closer to the levers of power than the most extreme elements who are the only ones that make Fox News. But right now it sounds like the people you refer to are heavily invested in partisan propaganda, even if they're not willing to actually vote for it.
    - lockhouse 3y ago
      The thing you're glossing over is that a lot of Trump voters weren't really voting "for" Trump so much as against Democrats. This also happens on the other side as well, most people I know that supported Biden only did so because he wasn't Trump. Democrats have some policy positions that are troubling for a lot of voters. Gun control is a big one. Much of rural America will vote against Democrats every time just on that one issue alone. Also, defunding the police is unpopular with many voters. There are also many who have moral concerns about gender transition surgeries for minors or allowing biological males to compete in women's sports. Also, the quality of Democrat candidates for 2016 and 2020 was very low.
      - jfengel 3y ago
- soco 3y ago
  As other commenters put in better words, no, not all voters are like that, but the collective results of their voting is a failed coup and more actions again already mentioned in other comments. So whatever was in people's minds, their deeds and their results are what counts in the end. Causes? Internet, bi-partisanship, not creating but heavily amplifying...
Incipient 3y ago
Sorry to say but both of your sides are just bonkers. You've left any sense of centerism well behind. The left has 4 year olds going through gender reassignment surgery, and...well the right take your pick lol. Now if it's the politicians driving people to be more extreme, or a more extreme population being reflected in politics, I don't know.
- freshpots 3y ago
  "The left has 4 year olds going through gender reassignment surgery..." Source? No one is performing surgery on children to reassign their "gender" last time I looked at any credible source. However, I would love to see where these claims come from and the facts that substantiate them.

equality_1138 3y ago

Could be the other way around. Failed leadership in the ruling class is promoting culture war and strife as a scapegoat. Quite easy to see the rise of race hate correlated with bank bailouts and occupy movement. Immigration won't fix the inequality problem, but could definitely fuel "partisanship"

klabb3 3y ago

The media and political system is today a charade of allowed opinions limited to identity politics, which does not threaten the established order. Even if you compare with Clinton and Bush eras, there’s a stark degradation of discussion and the “zoo-like” behavior of politicians. It’s even deliberately entertainment a lot of times, like a mix of reality TV and team sports. The US is fascinating, because unlike other countries with extreme wealth inequality it has an admirably free press and speech. There are few things that gets you in serious trouble – it’s almost all carrot-regulated. To get a lot of influence you have to play by the “rules”. A simpler way of saying this is of course that media is just aggressive for-profit ventures. Thus censorship is mostly deemed unnecessary (except during Covid when the stick came out for a while).