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I'd agree if it was almost any other country meanwhile the Russian state has complete control of the media and 99% of the country's area is essentially empty

nixass 3y ago
The way regular people take videos of destroyed bridges, damaged warships.. I wouldn't say so. The videos regular folks filmed on incident locations were perfect for damage assessment to us western folks. Russian government may control media in general but social media and messengers are full of uncontrollable stuff (for now)
dragonwriter 3y ago
> meanwhile the Russian state has complete control of the media Traditional mass media, sure, but there are a lot of people that have to know about a plane crash, and containing that information, even in Russia, is nontrivial.
- almostnormal 3y ago
  It is trivial. Official news will report that it was shot down or sabotaged by Ukrainian spies. I'm sure that the scripts and some stock footage are already prepared for when it happens.
  - Terr_ 3y ago
    "This marks the second time that the rebellious regime in Kyiv has shot down a peaceful civilian airliner over Russian soil." /s
foverzar 3y ago
And that is exactly "klyukva leaking into seemingly serious reasoning" I was talking about here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37041836 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37041836 There are myriad of reasons why this is not realistic, but if I were to pick the most obvious, that would be 1. No, there is no "complete control of the media", IDK why people assume it to be the case. Broadcast federal tv has to be politically correct, but not too much beyond that. 2. Planes are tracked and people usually have relatives or something. 3. Planes fly through established routes and air corridors - they have a specific destination and don't fly over random wilderness all over the map.
- tguvot 3y ago
  >No, there is no "complete control of the media", IDK why people assume it to be the case. Broadcast federal tv has to be politically correct, but not too much beyond that. This is why recent prigozhin roadtrip to moscow completely didn't happen at all according to russian media ? or is it just a case of been "politically correct" ? and tv station absolutely not given talking points by kremlin ?
  - vbezhenar 3y ago
    This is just lies. I tracked this situation and watched official TV. There was interruption at night with breaking news which informed about Prigozhin mutiny. Few hours later there was Putin interruption where he condemned this action and publicly called them a traitors. I don't think that there were many Russians who were not aware of this situation in this day. Some details could have been hidden, like shot down helicopters or killed soldiers. But claiming that it didn't happen is just lies.
    - tguvot 3y ago
      and after those 2 glorious day ? how much discussion on television ? "on june 23-24 absolutely nothing happened in russia" didn't came to existence by accident
      - vbezhenar 3y ago
        I'm not a vivid official TV watcher, so I can't comment about it, sorry. My point is that every russian citizen is perfectly aware of what's happened that day, so hiding very important events is not possible, at least today. Hiding plane crash with hundred of passengers is not possible. Now explaining those events is another matter. And that's where propaganda will kick in, for sure.
      - foverzar 3y ago
        > "on june 23-24 absolutely nothing happened in russia" didn't came to existence by accident How exactly did it come to existance though? It honestly feels like some kind of gaslighting. Putin did a whole speach on TV and this was a hot topic for weeks. Popular Z-bloggers were all over this matter even longer. Prigozhins hairwigs meme didnt come to existence by accident either, you know. I really feel like you might want to reconsider interactig with Russian media through what I assume are 3rd-party reports.
vbezhenar 3y ago
That could happen 60 years ago, I guess. Nowadays everyone uses Telegram, everyone possesses smartphone with camera, there are bloggers with millions of subscribers who are outside of political control. That said, few weeks ago major internet providers in Russia started to roll out VPN blocks with DPI. There are other obvious signs that Russia prepares for the external Internet cut off. So I wouldn't bet for this situation to continue for much longer.
jrockway 3y ago
I feel like the planespotting community will eventually ask "hey what happened to that registration number ABC123" or "didn't Aeroflot used to have 80 777s, but only 79 have been seen in the last year"? I feel like it's hard to hide a plane that's designed for international travel in a highly regulated industry.
- inferiorhuman 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Angola_Boeing_727_disappearance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Angola_Boeing_727_disappe...
  - jrockway 3y ago
    We know it's missing, right? In the case the original commenter posted, they'd have to somehow prove it didn't crash.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      Like the Malaysian 777, we know it's missing. No idea what happened to it or where it is. Even in the twenty-first century it's not impossible. In the context of the Russian war, the Russian government stole a bunch of planes being leased to Russian airlines by foreign companies and assigned them Russian tail numbers. With that paucity of transparency I'd say it's even easier to hide a plane wreck over there.
      - throw-ru-938 3y ago
        2003 was twenty years ago, we didn't have Flightradar24 yet.

nixass 3y ago

The way regular people take videos of destroyed bridges, damaged warships.. I wouldn't say so. The videos regular folks filmed on incident locations were perfect for damage assessment to us western folks. Russian government may control media in general but social media and messengers are full of uncontrollable stuff (for now)

dragonwriter 3y ago

> meanwhile the Russian state has complete control of the media Traditional mass media, sure, but there are a lot of people that have to know about a plane crash, and containing that information, even in Russia, is nontrivial.

almostnormal 3y ago
It is trivial. Official news will report that it was shot down or sabotaged by Ukrainian spies. I'm sure that the scripts and some stock footage are already prepared for when it happens.
- Terr_ 3y ago
  "This marks the second time that the rebellious regime in Kyiv has shot down a peaceful civilian airliner over Russian soil." /s

foverzar 3y ago

And that is exactly "klyukva leaking into seemingly serious reasoning" I was talking about here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37041836 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37041836 There are myriad of reasons why this is not realistic, but if I were to pick the most obvious, that would be 1. No, there is no "complete control of the media", IDK why people assume it to be the case. Broadcast federal tv has to be politically correct, but not too much beyond that. 2. Planes are tracked and people usually have relatives or something. 3. Planes fly through established routes and air corridors - they have a specific destination and don't fly over random wilderness all over the map.

tguvot 3y ago
>No, there is no "complete control of the media", IDK why people assume it to be the case. Broadcast federal tv has to be politically correct, but not too much beyond that. This is why recent prigozhin roadtrip to moscow completely didn't happen at all according to russian media ? or is it just a case of been "politically correct" ? and tv station absolutely not given talking points by kremlin ?
- vbezhenar 3y ago
  This is just lies. I tracked this situation and watched official TV. There was interruption at night with breaking news which informed about Prigozhin mutiny. Few hours later there was Putin interruption where he condemned this action and publicly called them a traitors. I don't think that there were many Russians who were not aware of this situation in this day. Some details could have been hidden, like shot down helicopters or killed soldiers. But claiming that it didn't happen is just lies.
  - tguvot 3y ago
    and after those 2 glorious day ? how much discussion on television ? "on june 23-24 absolutely nothing happened in russia" didn't came to existence by accident
    - vbezhenar 3y ago
      I'm not a vivid official TV watcher, so I can't comment about it, sorry. My point is that every russian citizen is perfectly aware of what's happened that day, so hiding very important events is not possible, at least today. Hiding plane crash with hundred of passengers is not possible. Now explaining those events is another matter. And that's where propaganda will kick in, for sure.
    - foverzar 3y ago
      > "on june 23-24 absolutely nothing happened in russia" didn't came to existence by accident How exactly did it come to existance though? It honestly feels like some kind of gaslighting. Putin did a whole speach on TV and this was a hot topic for weeks. Popular Z-bloggers were all over this matter even longer. Prigozhins hairwigs meme didnt come to existence by accident either, you know. I really feel like you might want to reconsider interactig with Russian media through what I assume are 3rd-party reports.

vbezhenar 3y ago

That could happen 60 years ago, I guess. Nowadays everyone uses Telegram, everyone possesses smartphone with camera, there are bloggers with millions of subscribers who are outside of political control. That said, few weeks ago major internet providers in Russia started to roll out VPN blocks with DPI. There are other obvious signs that Russia prepares for the external Internet cut off. So I wouldn't bet for this situation to continue for much longer.

jrockway 3y ago

I feel like the planespotting community will eventually ask "hey what happened to that registration number ABC123" or "didn't Aeroflot used to have 80 777s, but only 79 have been seen in the last year"? I feel like it's hard to hide a plane that's designed for international travel in a highly regulated industry.

inferiorhuman 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Angola_Boeing_727_disappearance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Angola_Boeing_727_disappe...
- jrockway 3y ago
  We know it's missing, right? In the case the original commenter posted, they'd have to somehow prove it didn't crash.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    Like the Malaysian 777, we know it's missing. No idea what happened to it or where it is. Even in the twenty-first century it's not impossible. In the context of the Russian war, the Russian government stole a bunch of planes being leased to Russian airlines by foreign companies and assigned them Russian tail numbers. With that paucity of transparency I'd say it's even easier to hide a plane wreck over there.
    - throw-ru-938 3y ago
      2003 was twenty years ago, we didn't have Flightradar24 yet.