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So many issues in society can be quickly, intuitively, and uncontroversially identified as a “tragedy of the commons” situation. But it’s a hard sell to give up
by sharkjacobs 3y ago
So many issues in society can be quickly, intuitively, and uncontroversially identified as a “tragedy of the commons” situation. But it’s a hard sell to give up a personal advantage for a collective betterment.
- 1270018080 3y agoWell, it's easy. That's the one of the main purposes of governments.
- baggy_trough 3y agoPoorly designed legislation is the reason American cars are so large.
- sebzim4500 3y agoDo other countries have laws discouraging large cars? I just assumed that people drive small cars in Europe because driving a large car would be a logistical nightmare. You'd never be able to park for a start.
- baggy_trough 3y agoMy point is that American laws encourage large cars.
- sebzim4500 3y agoWhich laws? I've never lived in the US
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- baggy_trough 3y agoHere's one article: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-emissions-suvs-size-explainer-idUSKBN21D1KK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-emissions-suvs-size...
- rootusrootus 3y agoEurope has significant pigovian taxes on fuel, for starters. More than half the retail price of gasoline. Probably that would be political suicide in the US.
- pc86 3y agoNo, you just don't understand, we need more legislation. We'll get it right eventually, I'm sure of it. On a more serious note, I wonder how much of this is related to regulatory capture in the automotive industry. I could be wrong but I would think the profit margin on something like a Land Cruiser is quite a bit more than something like a Corolla. There are a lot of sunk costs in just getting any one vehicle of any size to the sales lot, so is there an incentive to be able to make bigger cars and therefore a larger profit (either percentage or absolute) per vehicle?
- mrguyorama 3y agoTalk to car salespeople. Large american vehicles have nothing to do with law and everything to do with the american consumer preferring larger vehicles. You can see it in this very thread, they want to "feel" safer.
- baggy_trough 3y agoIt's probably a mixture of both, but don't underestimate the impact of laws that make large cars/trucks cheaper and that make smaller cars cost prohibitive.
- frumper 3y agoI want my kids car seat to fit behind me and I don't have to feel like a sardine.
- NoGravitas 3y agoI hauled two kids around in a Toyota Matrix (Corolla station wagon) for years, and never had a problem with the car seat not fitting or making me feel like a sardine.
- frumper 3y agoOk. I test drove a Rav4 and could not fit with our car seat. I could not fit the car seat behind me in our Acura TLX. I am not exceptionally tall.
- rglullis 3y agoTax vehicles by weight, regardless of powertrain. Maybe charge extra for ICE. Offer tax rebates for professionals who can justify using a large vehicle for at least 120 days in the year.
- sumoboy 3y agoCharge extra for EV, they shouldn't be excluded either. A Telsa plaid weighs in at nearly 5000 lbs. In the US there are tax benefits to having a car weighing over 6000 lbs like giant SUV's.
- rglullis 3y agoI am not excluding EV. I am saying "tax by weight regardless of powertrain and slap an extra charge on top of it if it is an ICE"
- pkolaczk 3y agoWhy slap additional charge on top if it is ICE? Some ICE cars emit less CO2 over their lifetime than EVs, especially when driven only in city, on short distances, in which case the lower CO2 emissions from driving don't offset much higher manufacturing emissions of EV. Also ICE cars cause less pollution from tire wear.
- rglullis 3y agoBecause we don't enact policy based on "some" cases and it's not just about CO2, we want to stop depending on fossil fuels. > especially when driven only in city, on short distances In the city and for short distances, cars could/should be banned outright, and force the US to transition to multi-mode and increased adoption of public transit.
- frumper 3y agoProfessionals using a larger vehicle for work should already be getting a tax break on the entire vehicle. If they don't, it sounds like it's just a personal vehicle.
- matthewaveryusa 3y agoI think in this case it's more likely that the US government wanted to have light trucks be fairly accessible to individuals that needed them, and somehow it became a cultural icon to have a pick-up truck that doesn't ever pick anything up. Now we're here and it's a hot-button cultural issue proxied as "the left is trying to change my lifestyle, not over my dead body." I don't blame the government for not seeing a need to regulate this decades ago. Really, who in their right mind would want such a difficult to park, more expensive, less economic vehicle if they didn't need it, right?
- shaftway 3y ago> somehow it became a cultural icon to have a pick-up truck that doesn't ever pick anything up This is actually the struggle I'm going through right now. I rarely need to cart around something large, but when I do it's something large. Like a few full sheets of plywood over 40 miles. I really don't want a pickup for the other 98% of the time, but there isn't really a viable option for renting a pickup for a few hours.
- matthewaveryusa 3y agoI would say optimize for the 98%. I've used renorun and paid for delivery, but they aren't available in all markets, that would be the #1 choice. #2 would be a roof rack. renorun stopped serving my area (boston) so I use my tiny hr-v (the old one based on the fit frame.) and I throw plywood and drywall sheets on the roof rack all the time. Only 6 sheets at a time, and you need to have a 3/8 plywood sheet on the bottom so the drywall doesn't snap, but it's been pretty adequate. I never used the home depot truck rental because you have to drive it back -- not a great option I think.
- shaftway 3y agoI never used it because last time I asked they told me I have to be buying something that needs it, like an appliance. Wood didn't count. So maybe that is an option, but.... > By the time you turn 35, you're in a blood feud with either Lowes or Home Depot, and have sworn vengeance against a minimum of two major airlines. [1] My blood feud is with Home Depot, and Lowe's near me doesn't have a rental program. [1] https://twitter.com/KBSpangler/status/1551715401033302016 https://twitter.com/KBSpangler/status/1551715401033302016
- tsunamifury 3y agoI think you miss the key ingredient, they are tragedy of the commons where a company profits from amplifying the game-theory of the tragedy. That is a HUGE difference. In one everyone is playing equally and if recognized can be de-escalated. In the other, there is a major monied player with power attempting to enshrine the tragedy into society.
- JeremyNT 3y agoI honestly feel like my small car is really the advantage. It's so much more nimble that I can easily evade road hazards and stop exceptionally quickly. It would fare worse in a collision, but maybe I'm also less likely to get caught in one because my car isn't so enormous.