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> We recruit devs who want to grow _from remote countries_ This sounds odd. Why just from "remote countries"? Is it because they can be paid less than in not

> We recruit devs who want to grow _from remote countries_ This sounds odd. Why just from "remote countries"? Is it because they can be paid less than in not so remote countries? Are you going to ensure that if someone from the UK hires such a service, the worker performing it will be paid at least the UK minimum wage for the time spent? I have a feeling this is just another way to get cheap labour.

MattGaiser 3y ago
To me that seems like the explicit value proposition. Here is cheap on demand labour to deal with all the low value tasks you have in your backlog.
- varispeed 3y ago
  In my experience this almost always turns to be a false economy.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ayewo 3y ago
> I have a feeling this is just another way to get cheap labour. You make it sound like it’s a Bad Thing (TM). The apprentices that sign up for this gain real world experience that’s hard to come by locally and get paid for it. This kind of extended apprenticeship is valuable as they can go on to land remote jobs that pay them better than their local market. Perhaps they could have worded that more clearly as: “we recruit devs . . . from low-income countries with English as their official language” This is how they are able to make the economics work. EDIT: https://www.pullrequest.com/ https://www.pullrequest.com/ is a comparable service (where you involve “outsiders” with your codebase) except they use senior devs rather than junior devs. Of course senior devs are more farther along in their careers so it is clear you are paying for their experience.
- confidantlake 3y ago
  This is a bad thing for devs in much of the world. It is trying to replace them with cheaper overseas ones.
  - ayewo 3y ago
    People have been saying this about outsourcing for nearly 2 decades now. Particularly after the publication of The World is Flat [1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Is_Flat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Is_Flat
  - falcor84 3y ago
    I suppose you're technically correct about this being a "bad thing" for us personally in the short term. But why should there be a moat? If devs elsewhere can indeed do the same quality of work, why should our salaries be kept artificially high? Stretching this to the limit, it would be a "good thing" for me if there was a law saying that I specifically should be paid more than all others of equal skill, but (even if I could somehow lobby to legislate that) I think I would prefer to compete on my own merits rather than artificial limitations.
    - varispeed 3y ago
      > why should our salaries be kept artificially high? Because why would anyone in the west invest in education if employers are going to look for talent overseas where it is relatively cheap? Take on that student debt only to find you'll have poor chance repaying it, because the available jobs won't provide for the living you were looking for. This is essentially "dumping".
      - falcor84 3y ago
        School prices in the West have made no sense in decades. If I can learn equally well in the East and have access to the same job prospects (and that's the question), why not sign up for their programs?
falcor84 3y ago
I also just feel weird about "remote countries" as a term. No particular country is defined by being "remote" (except maybe oceanic island nations), just like no person can be a "diverse individual".

MattGaiser 3y ago

To me that seems like the explicit value proposition. Here is cheap on demand labour to deal with all the low value tasks you have in your backlog.

varispeed 3y ago
In my experience this almost always turns to be a false economy.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ayewo 3y ago

> I have a feeling this is just another way to get cheap labour. You make it sound like it’s a Bad Thing (TM). The apprentices that sign up for this gain real world experience that’s hard to come by locally and get paid for it. This kind of extended apprenticeship is valuable as they can go on to land remote jobs that pay them better than their local market. Perhaps they could have worded that more clearly as: “we recruit devs . . . from low-income countries with English as their official language” This is how they are able to make the economics work. EDIT: https://www.pullrequest.com/ https://www.pullrequest.com/ is a comparable service (where you involve “outsiders” with your codebase) except they use senior devs rather than junior devs. Of course senior devs are more farther along in their careers so it is clear you are paying for their experience.

confidantlake 3y ago
This is a bad thing for devs in much of the world. It is trying to replace them with cheaper overseas ones.
- ayewo 3y ago
  People have been saying this about outsourcing for nearly 2 decades now. Particularly after the publication of The World is Flat [1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Is_Flat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Is_Flat
- falcor84 3y ago
  I suppose you're technically correct about this being a "bad thing" for us personally in the short term. But why should there be a moat? If devs elsewhere can indeed do the same quality of work, why should our salaries be kept artificially high? Stretching this to the limit, it would be a "good thing" for me if there was a law saying that I specifically should be paid more than all others of equal skill, but (even if I could somehow lobby to legislate that) I think I would prefer to compete on my own merits rather than artificial limitations.
  - varispeed 3y ago
    > why should our salaries be kept artificially high? Because why would anyone in the west invest in education if employers are going to look for talent overseas where it is relatively cheap? Take on that student debt only to find you'll have poor chance repaying it, because the available jobs won't provide for the living you were looking for. This is essentially "dumping".
    - falcor84 3y ago
      School prices in the West have made no sense in decades. If I can learn equally well in the East and have access to the same job prospects (and that's the question), why not sign up for their programs?

falcor84 3y ago

I also just feel weird about "remote countries" as a term. No particular country is defined by being "remote" (except maybe oceanic island nations), just like no person can be a "diverse individual".