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> Be indemnified by me if it turns out someone else owns the IP or has their rights infringed Does this mean Zoom expects their users to take on the legal burd

> Be indemnified by me if it turns out someone else owns the IP or has their rights infringed Does this mean Zoom expects their users to take on the legal burden if someone on a call uses a copyrighted image on a PowerPoint slide?

AndrewKemendo 3y ago
100% Make no mistake, zoom will prevail in court or any legal proceedings that may come up around this for at least a few years if not indefinitely. It would take an act of literally Congress or a court ruling that they can’t do this. So, the only way to get into court and win on this is to have zoom “injure” someone (hard to prove), then that injured person has to have enough money to pay a law firm for lengthy trials with zoom including, to be sure, multiple higher court appeals. Bottom line, for zoom to be prevented from doing any of this it’s going to cost probably in the millions of dollars of legal fees and fairly significant numbers of people who were injured by this before anything could start to happen to make something like this not possible.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
afavour 3y ago
I loathe Zoom but wouldn’t that be the right call? The person who made the infringing content is responsible? We’ve already been through all of this with social networks, no?
- numbsafari 3y ago
  The question I have is, what if my use during the call could be considered Fair Use in the context and with whatever intention I used it, but what if Zoom then uses it for some other purpose and in some other context that is not Fair Use, have I now taken on the burden of being responsible for however Zoom has chosen to use the content? So, perhaps, I would have been fine using it under the previous terms, but under the new terms, I need to be aware the Zoom may, at any point in the future, utilize it for some other, undisclosed, purpose there's no way that I can use it. How can anyone use Zoom at this point, considering the liability they are foisting onto their customers?
  - afavour 3y ago
    Ah OK, that facet of it makes total sense to me. I should be responsible for copyrighted material I show during my call, Zoom should be responsible if they take data from that call and make some machine learning thing that later infringes copyright.
- MobiusHorizons 3y ago
  The concern I’m seeing is more about IP that the members of the call have legal access to, but which zoom does not. Things for which one must sign an NDA, or copyrighted material owned by the company. This is pretty different than someone using copyrighted material in a slideshow, which would be infringing material whether or not zoom is involved. I’m curious if there is a distinction between consumer and business accounts, although based on the responses here, I’m guessing there isn’t one.
- snoman 3y ago
  It’s not the same though. When you post on social media, you’re posting information publicly (or semi-publicly). When you say, or show, something on a zoom call, there’s an expectation of privacy between the participants of the call. Zoom is now saying no, there isn’t, because they’re going to use the content of your calls to train their AI.
  - afavour 3y ago
    Yeah, sibling comment already made that clear. The post I was responding to was ambiguous.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    there's a comma between "artificial intelligence" and "training" so I could read that as permission to use your data in any sort of training (e.g. training customer support staff) though I guess it doesn't rule out using it to train an artificial intelligence.
ranting-moth 3y ago
It sounds more sinister to me. It seems that Zoom expects you not to use IP material on Zoom and if you do, you are the one to blame. Now that Zoom is harvesting everyone's content, video and transcripts, things will get very, very interesting. So if you discuss/use company IP on a zoom call, Zoom's future AI can reproduce it freely.
oriettaxx 3y ago
yeah, even the pic you have in the background wall in your office ;)
purpleblue 3y ago
Why on earth would Zoom be responsible for the legal burden if one of their millions of users uses a copyrighted image?
- snoman 3y ago
  If the contents of the call are kept private, there’s no legal burden.

AndrewKemendo 3y ago

100% Make no mistake, zoom will prevail in court or any legal proceedings that may come up around this for at least a few years if not indefinitely. It would take an act of literally Congress or a court ruling that they can’t do this. So, the only way to get into court and win on this is to have zoom “injure” someone (hard to prove), then that injured person has to have enough money to pay a law firm for lengthy trials with zoom including, to be sure, multiple higher court appeals. Bottom line, for zoom to be prevented from doing any of this it’s going to cost probably in the millions of dollars of legal fees and fairly significant numbers of people who were injured by this before anything could start to happen to make something like this not possible.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

afavour 3y ago

I loathe Zoom but wouldn’t that be the right call? The person who made the infringing content is responsible? We’ve already been through all of this with social networks, no?

numbsafari 3y ago
The question I have is, what if my use during the call could be considered Fair Use in the context and with whatever intention I used it, but what if Zoom then uses it for some other purpose and in some other context that is not Fair Use, have I now taken on the burden of being responsible for however Zoom has chosen to use the content? So, perhaps, I would have been fine using it under the previous terms, but under the new terms, I need to be aware the Zoom may, at any point in the future, utilize it for some other, undisclosed, purpose there's no way that I can use it. How can anyone use Zoom at this point, considering the liability they are foisting onto their customers?
- afavour 3y ago
  Ah OK, that facet of it makes total sense to me. I should be responsible for copyrighted material I show during my call, Zoom should be responsible if they take data from that call and make some machine learning thing that later infringes copyright.
MobiusHorizons 3y ago
The concern I’m seeing is more about IP that the members of the call have legal access to, but which zoom does not. Things for which one must sign an NDA, or copyrighted material owned by the company. This is pretty different than someone using copyrighted material in a slideshow, which would be infringing material whether or not zoom is involved. I’m curious if there is a distinction between consumer and business accounts, although based on the responses here, I’m guessing there isn’t one.
snoman 3y ago
It’s not the same though. When you post on social media, you’re posting information publicly (or semi-publicly). When you say, or show, something on a zoom call, there’s an expectation of privacy between the participants of the call. Zoom is now saying no, there isn’t, because they’re going to use the content of your calls to train their AI.
- afavour 3y ago
  Yeah, sibling comment already made that clear. The post I was responding to was ambiguous.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  there's a comma between "artificial intelligence" and "training" so I could read that as permission to use your data in any sort of training (e.g. training customer support staff) though I guess it doesn't rule out using it to train an artificial intelligence.

ranting-moth 3y ago

It sounds more sinister to me. It seems that Zoom expects you not to use IP material on Zoom and if you do, you are the one to blame. Now that Zoom is harvesting everyone's content, video and transcripts, things will get very, very interesting. So if you discuss/use company IP on a zoom call, Zoom's future AI can reproduce it freely.

oriettaxx 3y ago

yeah, even the pic you have in the background wall in your office ;)

purpleblue 3y ago

Why on earth would Zoom be responsible for the legal burden if one of their millions of users uses a copyrighted image?

snoman 3y ago
If the contents of the call are kept private, there’s no legal burden.