> Irrationality (own or others') can trap people in situations where self-destruction is the most rational choice. Perhaps, but I made a distinction between pl

> Irrationality (own or others') can trap people in situations where self-destruction is the most rational choice. Perhaps, but I made a distinction between plain suicide and other self-destructive behaviors. Is affecting others for selfish reasons a rational choice there? Suicide is both final and most directly individual, which is why I distinguish it. I'll respond to the rest of your post without pressing the distinction. > Furthermore, we have a bit of a scoping issue on our hands: we default to assuming that self-preservation is rational. I think self preservation is sensible as a default. It's ultimately a matter of opinion, but I go off the premise that we live to do whatever it is we choose to do, and therefore self destruction should be a last resort. > - We have language, which lets us continue our thoughts beyond the immediate moment. Ignoring the evidence of language in other animals (though you might convince me that human language is more sophisticated), I don't see how this is relevant to justifying self destruction or many other things. > In that light, many of the relatively irrational choices that we make, can still seem more rational in comparison with an alternative of just sitting around and waiting to die. "Many" and "an alternative of just...waiting to die" suggest a far greater scale of "rational irrationality" than I think actually occurs. How often are people faced with situations where their only realistic alternative boils down to "waiting to die"? > "Destruction" is just the process of going from existence to non-existence, and "self-destruction" is just an egosyntonic drive towards non-existence. Nevermind, I'm bringing up that distinction again. Suicide fits your criterion, but not alcoholism. "Just" is a strong word. > from a thinking being's perspective From your perspective, you mean. People have opinions, thank you very much. > the most rational evaluation of the question of self-destruction Most rational? Really? > It's still way easier to see than all of the collateral damage you make when not destroying yourself. I'm not sure about that, but perhaps. > All turned to shit, thanks to the presumably rational actions of presumably rational actors pursuing individual self-preservation and prosperity. You're not wrong to be cynical about that, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about how self-destructive behaviors can be harmful. > Which is why you see so many young people finding life hardly worth living. I don't think they would be taking the most rational course of action through suicide. In fact, I highly doubt more can't be done with the their effort than without. > But of course the prostitutes are to blame /s Is that really what you got from my comment? It was one example and not slut shaming. Realistically, a child born of a prostitute isn't going to have a great childhood. That might change in the future if society shifts more towards sex workers that are fairly treated, but that's not here.