6 ms·

Sorry for asking a dumb question, but how is this different from using Jupyter to write your interactive documentation/runbooks and interactive tests?

Terretta 3y ago
> how is this different from using Jupyter It requires you to run a far less common tech stack and limits your hiring to a vanishingly small subset of developers. Paradoxically, that may be a good thing.
- goeiedaggoeie 3y ago
  Love it! yes, it might be better. We have found paying above market average and being tighter on interviews has a similar outcome.
  - throwawaymaths 3y ago
    Elixir market is already more high paying than python.
    - nesarkvechnep 3y ago
      According to SO’s survey, Erlang is the highest paying technology or something like that.
- voicedYoda 3y ago
  This is just, wrong. There's actually a huge number of Elixirists, but after this long in the game, we're used to cynical elitists...
throwawaymaths 3y ago
Outputs markdown, easy to share. Jupyter outputs JSON.
krstf13 3y ago
While Livebook will mostly have an appeal for people already working with erlang/elixir, it does have a few features that are pretty nice. - it’s collaborative (think Google docs for code) when several people are working on the same instance of a livebook; - it’s easy to extend with so-called smart cells (which are essentially pieces of gui you can inject in your document https://news.livebook.dev/v0.6-automate-and-learn-with-smart-cells-mxJJe https://news.livebook.dev/v0.6-automate-and-learn-with-smart... ). Smart cells are available for various tasks (db connection/ interaction, data frame exploration, ML tasks, maps), and building your own is relatively easy; - you can turn a notebook into a web app ( https://news.livebook.dev/deploy-notebooks-as-apps-quality-of-life-upgrades---launch-week-1---day-1-2OTEWI https://news.livebook.dev/deploy-notebooks-as-apps-quality-o... ) - you can run your code an a remote elixir node by attaching to it (although this requires some knowledge of distributed elixir/erlang )
- goeiedaggoeie 3y ago
  thanks for the detailed answer of the differences. The interactive (I assume using CRDT's) is a good feature, jupyter server does not have this and is at a time a bit of a hassle. Also deploying it directly as an app is pretty sweet.
  - Becher19 3y ago
    Livebook actually uses state reducers as described here[1]. Except for cell content. There it uses Operational Transformation. The source code[2] is really instructional and easy to understand. I highly recommend to look into it :) [1] https://github.com/jonatanklosko/notebooks/blob/main/articles/state_sync_and_reducers.livemd https://github.com/jonatanklosko/notebooks/blob/main/article... [2] https://github.com/livebook-dev/livebook/blob/main/lib/livebook/session/data.ex https://github.com/livebook-dev/livebook/blob/main/lib/liveb...
    - goeiedaggoeie 3y ago
      A great read, thanks so much!

Terretta 3y ago

> how is this different from using Jupyter It requires you to run a far less common tech stack and limits your hiring to a vanishingly small subset of developers. Paradoxically, that may be a good thing.

goeiedaggoeie 3y ago
Love it! yes, it might be better. We have found paying above market average and being tighter on interviews has a similar outcome.
- throwawaymaths 3y ago
  Elixir market is already more high paying than python.
  - nesarkvechnep 3y ago
    According to SO’s survey, Erlang is the highest paying technology or something like that.
voicedYoda 3y ago
This is just, wrong. There's actually a huge number of Elixirists, but after this long in the game, we're used to cynical elitists...

throwawaymaths 3y ago

Outputs markdown, easy to share. Jupyter outputs JSON.

krstf13 3y ago

While Livebook will mostly have an appeal for people already working with erlang/elixir, it does have a few features that are pretty nice. - it’s collaborative (think Google docs for code) when several people are working on the same instance of a livebook; - it’s easy to extend with so-called smart cells (which are essentially pieces of gui you can inject in your document https://news.livebook.dev/v0.6-automate-and-learn-with-smart-cells-mxJJe https://news.livebook.dev/v0.6-automate-and-learn-with-smart... ). Smart cells are available for various tasks (db connection/ interaction, data frame exploration, ML tasks, maps), and building your own is relatively easy; - you can turn a notebook into a web app ( https://news.livebook.dev/deploy-notebooks-as-apps-quality-of-life-upgrades---launch-week-1---day-1-2OTEWI https://news.livebook.dev/deploy-notebooks-as-apps-quality-o... ) - you can run your code an a remote elixir node by attaching to it (although this requires some knowledge of distributed elixir/erlang )

goeiedaggoeie 3y ago
thanks for the detailed answer of the differences. The interactive (I assume using CRDT's) is a good feature, jupyter server does not have this and is at a time a bit of a hassle. Also deploying it directly as an app is pretty sweet.
- Becher19 3y ago
  Livebook actually uses state reducers as described here[1]. Except for cell content. There it uses Operational Transformation. The source code[2] is really instructional and easy to understand. I highly recommend to look into it :) [1] https://github.com/jonatanklosko/notebooks/blob/main/articles/state_sync_and_reducers.livemd https://github.com/jonatanklosko/notebooks/blob/main/article... [2] https://github.com/livebook-dev/livebook/blob/main/lib/livebook/session/data.ex https://github.com/livebook-dev/livebook/blob/main/lib/liveb...
  - goeiedaggoeie 3y ago
    A great read, thanks so much!