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Don't see why being fixed in place in a house means that a £60 control chip should be required to last longer than a £1000 smartphone, especially since the latt

Don't see why being fixed in place in a house means that a £60 control chip should be required to last longer than a £1000 smartphone, especially since the latter doesn't offer you a discounted replacement when the OEM kills most of your functionality with incompatible OS updates locking you out of appstores and then the non-removable battery swells up and kills it.

benj111 3y ago
do the same with phones then. unlock them when they stop being supported so you can run your own software. id accept the same for hive if there was an open ecosystem to move it to. point is, if companies want to retain control of something they actually need to maintain it. if they dont want to maintain it, they need to give up control. they cant have it both ways.
pmlnr 3y ago
> Don't see why being fixed in place in a house means that a £60 control chip should be required to last longer than a £1000 smartphone Huh? You're joking, right? You want to go around and replace all switches, dimmers, etc every other year in a home?
- notahacker 3y ago
  No, which is why I wouldn't have every single switch and dimmer in my house controlled by individual computer with custom Internet connected firmware. We're talking about a single inexpensive thermostat that's being replaced at half price after 5-7 years, I'm definitely not joking when I'm suggesting that this might actually have less impact on consumer wallets or ewaste pile than very expensive consumer devices whose OEMs' business model revolves around being replaced biannually
  - pmlnr 3y ago
    > with custom Internet connected firmware smart != internet connected. KNX, Zigbee, Z-Wave falls into this category as well, and those are local to the house, unless there's a gateway. Anyway... as others said it before, a non-smart switch lasts decades. Smart ones should as well.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    If you do things reasonably and only have a smart thermostat, 7 years isn't awful, but I'd still spend a little effort seeing if I can switch instead of buying v2. It'd really bite if you went all-in on smart home stuff.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  > Huh? You're joking, right? This isn't necessary.
rjmunro 3y ago
The price is irrelevant. What matters is how long that kind of device can be reasonably expected to last. Dumb wall sockets cost about £5 and last >20 years. Smart sockets should last a comparable time, or come with a warning. Because cellphones are traditionally something you replace every 3-4 years it's expected that they only last that long, and you are fully aware of that when you are buying it.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  I'll note that people have been conditioned to think that phones need replacing every 3--4 years. Used to be that a wired-in landline would last a quarter-century or more, and even wireless phonesets could be expected to last a decade. With smartphones, the principle drivers of technical obsolescence are ultimately communications standards (e.g., phase-out of 3G communications), chip speeds, and the ever-increasing resource requirements of connected services (apps or websites). Tools for dealing with phone & SMS spam and fraud would be another principle concern. But really, there's no reason otherwise that a handset from a decade or two ago couldn't work, and there are many who look on classic Nokia handsets with fondness and/or mourning.
- notahacker 3y ago
  Dumbphones lasted >20 years too.
lostmsu 3y ago
The phones don't stop to function.
danaris 3y ago
If you're manufacturing something that's going to go in a house... ...and that means it should be expected to last 20 years... ...then maybe just don't use the cheapest part you can, and instead actually engineer it to last 20 years? You're talking about it like the manufacturer has no choice but to make it as cheap as possible and hey, if it fails, it fails—but that's not true at all. If there were a requirement for something to be more durable, then the manufacturer would be both able and obligated to follow it. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is such a requirement as things stand.

benj111 3y ago

do the same with phones then. unlock them when they stop being supported so you can run your own software. id accept the same for hive if there was an open ecosystem to move it to. point is, if companies want to retain control of something they actually need to maintain it. if they dont want to maintain it, they need to give up control. they cant have it both ways.

pmlnr 3y ago

> Don't see why being fixed in place in a house means that a £60 control chip should be required to last longer than a £1000 smartphone Huh? You're joking, right? You want to go around and replace all switches, dimmers, etc every other year in a home?

notahacker 3y ago
No, which is why I wouldn't have every single switch and dimmer in my house controlled by individual computer with custom Internet connected firmware. We're talking about a single inexpensive thermostat that's being replaced at half price after 5-7 years, I'm definitely not joking when I'm suggesting that this might actually have less impact on consumer wallets or ewaste pile than very expensive consumer devices whose OEMs' business model revolves around being replaced biannually
- pmlnr 3y ago
  > with custom Internet connected firmware smart != internet connected. KNX, Zigbee, Z-Wave falls into this category as well, and those are local to the house, unless there's a gateway. Anyway... as others said it before, a non-smart switch lasts decades. Smart ones should as well.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  If you do things reasonably and only have a smart thermostat, 7 years isn't awful, but I'd still spend a little effort seeing if I can switch instead of buying v2. It'd really bite if you went all-in on smart home stuff.
hot_gril 3y ago
> Huh? You're joking, right? This isn't necessary.

rjmunro 3y ago

The price is irrelevant. What matters is how long that kind of device can be reasonably expected to last. Dumb wall sockets cost about £5 and last >20 years. Smart sockets should last a comparable time, or come with a warning. Because cellphones are traditionally something you replace every 3-4 years it's expected that they only last that long, and you are fully aware of that when you are buying it.

dredmorbius 3y ago
I'll note that people have been conditioned to think that phones need replacing every 3--4 years. Used to be that a wired-in landline would last a quarter-century or more, and even wireless phonesets could be expected to last a decade. With smartphones, the principle drivers of technical obsolescence are ultimately communications standards (e.g., phase-out of 3G communications), chip speeds, and the ever-increasing resource requirements of connected services (apps or websites). Tools for dealing with phone & SMS spam and fraud would be another principle concern. But really, there's no reason otherwise that a handset from a decade or two ago couldn't work, and there are many who look on classic Nokia handsets with fondness and/or mourning.
notahacker 3y ago
Dumbphones lasted >20 years too.

lostmsu 3y ago

The phones don't stop to function.

danaris 3y ago

If you're manufacturing something that's going to go in a house... ...and that means it should be expected to last 20 years... ...then maybe just don't use the cheapest part you can, and instead actually engineer it to last 20 years? You're talking about it like the manufacturer has no choice but to make it as cheap as possible and hey, if it fails, it fails—but that's not true at all. If there were a requirement for something to be more durable, then the manufacturer would be both able and obligated to follow it. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is such a requirement as things stand.