3 ms·

> I've met more than a few Germans, Finns, and Swedish that map their local keyboards to US English Which is impossible to do properly, because those keyboards

by p-e-w 3y ago

> I've met more than a few Germans, Finns, and Swedish that map their local keyboards to US English Which is impossible to do properly, because those keyboards differ from US keyboards in their geometry, not just in the labeling of the keys.

dfawcus 3y ago
The main issue for me has been the daft L shaped enter key. Having started with computers and terminals using a simple horizontal bar enter, hence I generally prefer to get a US geometry keyboard when possible. Stuff like the split pseudo-L of say the Framework keyword is acceptable, since there is still a horizontal enter. Others at work tend to get confused by the (UK geometry) keyboard on my desk operating with a US keyboard map, simply because there are 2-3 key caps in the "wrong position"...
zajio1am 3y ago
Keymap layout and physical layout are two orthogonal issues. Keymap layout (e.g. US /other language vairants) is primarily user-preference software setting, unrelated to the physical hardware (except for labels, but these are not relevant for function). Physical layout (ISO / ANSI / backwards L-shaped enter) are unrelated to its logical function. The EurKEY post seems to offer a keymap layout, not specific physical layout, so physical geometry is irrelevant.
flohofwoe 3y ago
I do this (US keyboard layout on German keyboards) since the mid/late 90's without problems. The physical differences are not very relevant (it's just things like the size of the Return key and related to that, the location of the Backslash key). I seem to remember that the Amiga had a German keyboard layout which was much more convenient for programmers (at least I only started the habit of using the US layout after I switched from Amiga to PC).
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  The Amiga layout was truly made for programmers.
murphyslaw 3y ago
As a Belgian I simply use US intl and damn AZERTY to hell and back. The biggest problem is the size of the left shift which is only "right" on the Apple US intl keyboard and just wrong on anything else in Europe. I also hate the extra big enter key, I mean what the hell? Give me my backslash above the enter any time of the year. Thank god I got my escape key back BTW. I needed an external keyboard just for that crap.
jdrek1 3y ago
> Which is impossible to do properly, because those keyboards differ from US keyboards in their geometry, not just in the labeling of the keys. The only difference is that on US keyboards the enter key is smaller and left shift is larger, leading to the "\" key being moved one down and one left on a German keyboard (and also being duplicated to left of z (German label: y)). So even if you move from a physical US keyboard to a physical German one while keeping the US layout, it's literally just one key where you'd have to retrain your hand. And for people that have learned to type on a German keyboard this is not a problem at all since they have never typed on a physical US one and using a different mapping means a training period anyway. Source: German who mapped his keyboard to US (+ some AltGr modifiers for the German characters I need). I don't know about the other European layouts, but I assume it's somewhat similar for them too.
landgenoot 3y ago
That is not a major issue by itself, just something to get used to. However, it becomes an issue if you have to use multiple designs. For example: Dell ships all their laptops with ANSI-layouts, but Logitech does not ship ANSI-layouts to Europe at all. I ended up buying my Logitech keyboard on Ebay in the US, because I wanted my layouts to be identical.
- Tijdreiziger 3y ago
  Meh, I use both layouts and it never really bothered me.
rawfan 3y ago
The key mapping still works. I prefer the UK layout, e.g. (which has the vertical return key instead of the horizontal enter key in US layouts). If I connect a UK keyboard and use US mapping it still works. Generally, though, I always try to get any English layout, instead of a European one and map as I desire. For macs that would be English International.

by p-e-w 3y ago

dfawcus 3y ago

The main issue for me has been the daft L shaped enter key. Having started with computers and terminals using a simple horizontal bar enter, hence I generally prefer to get a US geometry keyboard when possible. Stuff like the split pseudo-L of say the Framework keyword is acceptable, since there is still a horizontal enter. Others at work tend to get confused by the (UK geometry) keyboard on my desk operating with a US keyboard map, simply because there are 2-3 key caps in the "wrong position"...

zajio1am 3y ago

Keymap layout and physical layout are two orthogonal issues. Keymap layout (e.g. US /other language vairants) is primarily user-preference software setting, unrelated to the physical hardware (except for labels, but these are not relevant for function). Physical layout (ISO / ANSI / backwards L-shaped enter) are unrelated to its logical function. The EurKEY post seems to offer a keymap layout, not specific physical layout, so physical geometry is irrelevant.

flohofwoe 3y ago

I do this (US keyboard layout on German keyboards) since the mid/late 90's without problems. The physical differences are not very relevant (it's just things like the size of the Return key and related to that, the location of the Backslash key). I seem to remember that the Amiga had a German keyboard layout which was much more convenient for programmers (at least I only started the habit of using the US layout after I switched from Amiga to PC).

actionfromafar 3y ago
The Amiga layout was truly made for programmers.

murphyslaw 3y ago

As a Belgian I simply use US intl and damn AZERTY to hell and back. The biggest problem is the size of the left shift which is only "right" on the Apple US intl keyboard and just wrong on anything else in Europe. I also hate the extra big enter key, I mean what the hell? Give me my backslash above the enter any time of the year. Thank god I got my escape key back BTW. I needed an external keyboard just for that crap.

jdrek1 3y ago

> Which is impossible to do properly, because those keyboards differ from US keyboards in their geometry, not just in the labeling of the keys. The only difference is that on US keyboards the enter key is smaller and left shift is larger, leading to the "\" key being moved one down and one left on a German keyboard (and also being duplicated to left of z (German label: y)). So even if you move from a physical US keyboard to a physical German one while keeping the US layout, it's literally just one key where you'd have to retrain your hand. And for people that have learned to type on a German keyboard this is not a problem at all since they have never typed on a physical US one and using a different mapping means a training period anyway. Source: German who mapped his keyboard to US (+ some AltGr modifiers for the German characters I need). I don't know about the other European layouts, but I assume it's somewhat similar for them too.

landgenoot 3y ago

That is not a major issue by itself, just something to get used to. However, it becomes an issue if you have to use multiple designs. For example: Dell ships all their laptops with ANSI-layouts, but Logitech does not ship ANSI-layouts to Europe at all. I ended up buying my Logitech keyboard on Ebay in the US, because I wanted my layouts to be identical.

Tijdreiziger 3y ago
Meh, I use both layouts and it never really bothered me.

rawfan 3y ago

The key mapping still works. I prefer the UK layout, e.g. (which has the vertical return key instead of the horizontal enter key in US layouts). If I connect a UK keyboard and use US mapping it still works. Generally, though, I always try to get any English layout, instead of a European one and map as I desire. For macs that would be English International.