3 ms·

I was being genuine. I lived through the Microsoft antitrust trial and like several of the companies they obliterated with their anti-competitive practices (spe

I was being genuine. I lived through the Microsoft antitrust trial and like several of the companies they obliterated with their anti-competitive practices (specifically Be). They had 90+% desktop OS market share and they used that to prevent PC manufacturers from selling competitor’s operating systems, bundle a free browser that destroyed an entire industry of browser companies, and other behaviors that made it impossible for others to compete. So when people say Apple has a monopoly, I want to know what market they control so entirely that they are able to eliminate any competitors should they choose to behave anti-competitively. People often say they have a monopoly on iPhones, but that’s not a market, it’s a product that they make and sell. If 90% of mobile devices were iPhones, I’d agree, but they’re not, so Apple cannot have a monopoly in that market. Sometime people suggest they have control over mobile development. Targeting iPhones is profitable because iPhone users spend money. It’s no different from console development (PS5, Switch, Xbox) where all software goes through a gatekeeper who takes a cut. How does that control mobile development when they’re in the minority in the market? They have a huge market cap and pile of cash, that still doesn’t make them a monopoly. They don’t have price control in any market segment. Sticking with phones, you can get Samsung and Pixel phones for higher and lower cost. AFAICT they don’t meet any common or legal definition of a monopoly so I am interested in what industry people think they control. You’ve not said why you think they’re a monopoly, so I can really only assume the common things I see people complain about. A company having business practices that might be considered hostile does not make them a monopoly though. That word has a specific meaning.

vlovich123 3y ago
To play devil’s advocate, I’d say having something like 85% of the profit in the mobile space despite only have ~13% market share is probably a good start in terms of classifying as a monopoly. Do you really have competition when you’re the only one making money and the rest are being subsidized by your competitor? That’s also a good case Apple has that they’re fighting the Google monopoly of flooding the market with their own.
- jonhohle 3y ago
  I’m sure we’ll hear more about that this fall. Google certainly has a monopoly on web search and I would argue used that to unfairly compete in several other markets where they could lose money for extended periods (indefinitely?). Is profit in a market a measure that’s ever been used to identify a monopoly? Apple has no method of controlling prices in the mobile market, so what difference does it make if they are one of the few profitable companies? That’s why I mentioned buying out fab processes, but that might be anti-competitive, but still not monopolistic. By definition monopolies dominate a market so thoroughly that they can prevent equivalent products from being offered at lower prices. Apple does not have the power to keep mobile device prices high, despite their fab dominance (and there are other fabs that offer substitute processes). There are dozens of cheap mobile devices that, despite low profitability, still dominate the market. Despite Jobs’ claim that the iPhone was guarded by patents, competitors with essentially the same features were available within a year of the iPhone’s release. Does Apple have some anti-competitive practices? They’ve been found to in the past (employee recruiting between companies), and may or may not now, but that is separate from being a monopoly.
mikepurvis 3y ago
I haven't seen recent numbers but I expect if you look at phone marketshare for households over $100k, it will indeed be 90%+ iPhone, maybe more like 95%. Saying Apple doesn't have a phone monopoly because of cheap Android devices is like saying Microsoft didn't have one because doing work on a piece of paper was still a thing.

vlovich123 3y ago

To play devil’s advocate, I’d say having something like 85% of the profit in the mobile space despite only have ~13% market share is probably a good start in terms of classifying as a monopoly. Do you really have competition when you’re the only one making money and the rest are being subsidized by your competitor? That’s also a good case Apple has that they’re fighting the Google monopoly of flooding the market with their own.

jonhohle 3y ago
I’m sure we’ll hear more about that this fall. Google certainly has a monopoly on web search and I would argue used that to unfairly compete in several other markets where they could lose money for extended periods (indefinitely?). Is profit in a market a measure that’s ever been used to identify a monopoly? Apple has no method of controlling prices in the mobile market, so what difference does it make if they are one of the few profitable companies? That’s why I mentioned buying out fab processes, but that might be anti-competitive, but still not monopolistic. By definition monopolies dominate a market so thoroughly that they can prevent equivalent products from being offered at lower prices. Apple does not have the power to keep mobile device prices high, despite their fab dominance (and there are other fabs that offer substitute processes). There are dozens of cheap mobile devices that, despite low profitability, still dominate the market. Despite Jobs’ claim that the iPhone was guarded by patents, competitors with essentially the same features were available within a year of the iPhone’s release. Does Apple have some anti-competitive practices? They’ve been found to in the past (employee recruiting between companies), and may or may not now, but that is separate from being a monopoly.

mikepurvis 3y ago

I haven't seen recent numbers but I expect if you look at phone marketshare for households over $100k, it will indeed be 90%+ iPhone, maybe more like 95%. Saying Apple doesn't have a phone monopoly because of cheap Android devices is like saying Microsoft didn't have one because doing work on a piece of paper was still a thing.