5 ms·

> Something happens to companies as they get larger... I think promotion happens. When you're a fresh grad right out-of-college and the Managing Director says

by chime 15y ago

> Something happens to companies as they get larger... I think promotion happens. When you're a fresh grad right out-of-college and the Managing Director says "client is our #1 priority", you take it to heart. That's your new mantra now. Nine years later, when the same Director, now promoted to the Board says the same line, you groan inside because you know exactly how often he calls his clients muppets. Slowly you begin to feel that the company is no longer the same wonderful, inspirational place of work that you signed up for. Positions of power at any company, non-profit, government, or political organizations are not filled with do-gooders who want to give everyone a hug. They are filled with thick-skinned, ambitious, practical people who have learnt to say the right things at the right time. So if you're a junior exec., you will hear inspirational BS. As you join their ranks, you will hear their real thoughts. If the latter disgust you, it clearly means you aren't fit to join their ranks, not because of any lack of skills on your part but rather the difference in how you view the world. To me all these execs leaving companies and saying "it's so different now" just means they all grew up and realized they didn't like what they signed up for. It's no different than couples splitting because "we grew apart." I highly recommend people quitting if things aren't working out ( http://chir.ag/200804242130 http://chir.ag/200804242130 ) but I do not recommend airing out the dirty laundry, especially when no laws were broken because you're just scaring off the next company you intend to work for. None of my above comments were in reference to anything at GS/Google/MS specifically. Facebook will start charging for integration some day too and some Dropbox exec will joke in company meetings about all the stupid people who save personal photos on their servers. People are people and companies are companies.

anabis 15y ago
Yeah, Goldman Sachs made a predatory loan to Greece in 2002. That is just 2 years after this guy got hired.
- refurb 15y ago
  Got any details? Predatory loan usually refers to taking advantage of someone who doesn't know what they are getting themselves into. Are you saying that Greece lacks the financial knowledge to understand what they are signing?
  - UrbanPat 15y ago
    Details abound: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-06/goldman-secret-greece-loan-shows-two-sinners-as-client-unravels.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-06/goldman-secret-gree... Greece wasn't innocent in this, but it's pretty obvious that Goldman took advantage of them.
larrys 15y ago
"When you're a fresh grad right out-of-college" It's called being wet behind the ears. Most people in that situation simply don't realize how much they don't know. And guess what you aren't going to be able to read about it and know either. You will find it out through life experience. The upside is you aren't jaded and you will try things that older people will avoid because of their wisdom and experience.
jflatow 15y ago
It might be that things never change and all attempts to bring back the good ol' culture are just reactionary, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't speak up when they feel disgusted by what's going on around them. Fear(s) motivate(s) people pretty well to do just about anything, including to keep silent (as you recommend), but I'm glad that people are brave enough, or stupid enough, to say what they think is right, even in the face of such fears. It might also turn out that the people who agree with the dissenters outnumber the powerful incumbents who they oppose.
yajoe 15y ago
I agree with your point that part of the cause is getting more senior and actually watching the lies. But I don't accept that we should condone that behavior. Full disclosure: I left Micosoft last year after I long debated the trade offs of starting my career over. I was a "top performer" and Microsoft makes a point of telling the many people like me to stick around for all sorts of reasons. Deferred compensation. Trajectory. Influence. Etc. But then I actually got into the VP's circle and didn't like what I saw. This smooth-talking, confident leader within Office was some kind of sociopath. He and his comrades snickered after a middle manager announced he would put the blame on someone for failing to deliver a major feature. I was confused when it happened. Like one big inside joke, that would be my initiation. This feature was promised three years ago to the previous President of the division, and it turned out to be a top priority for the incoming president. Well, the middle manager miscalculated and let it slip. We've all done this to some degree-- answer an email late, forget to deliver on a request -- it's part of being an engineer working with people. But the middle manager had done it at a big scale and was wrong. Rather than admit it because that would end his career (as I'll explain in a minute), he threw someone else under the bus. He asked this senior PM to take the project over. Rather than give her support, he decided to undermine her. He had people give copious amounts of negative feedback on her specs, held back people from working with her, and lied about progress to management. He was setting her up to fail so he could swoop in and deliver it after she failed without the wrath of being late. We've all seen managers excuse being late because of low performers. The VP and his manager needed to construct a low performer. And all he had to do was signal to the herd to stay away from her with all the negative feedback. The hell they put her through so they could save their asses. And the fucking snicker. She was a warm, smart, expert in this feature and had she been allowed to work she would have outdone the middle manager. But the middle manager was ambitious. And the VP seemed to like watching people destroy their lives. And he liked loyalty. He knew if he could get dirt on his managers he would keep them for a long time. I try to be a good person. I try to be honest. I try to stand up for people. But I couldn't help her. For a year I gave as much moral support as I could without the inner circle knowing. But the politics were too thick and toxic to touch. I watched her nervous breakdown. And then I knew I had to leave. Maybe it really was this one bad team. But this was the rising star VP. If this is how he succeeded then the others VPs would have to eventually. And the middle manager was his replacement. So, I got a different job. I took 3 months to travel in Europe to wash off the filth. And I checked in with my friend, and am pleased to hear that she has landed on her feet and is doing much better. At my current job the people argue about -- gasp -- the customer. What a difference. But I am still angry that evil people -- the VP, the middle managers -- are allowed to continue. I don't agree we're supposed to be quiet. Food critics used to be afraid of giving bad reviews because they wouldn't be allowed to keep their jobs (in local markets unless you were someone politics would prevail). Now we have Yelp. Really bad restaurants should have a hard time of hiding. I wish there was something like that for managers and companies without blowback. I wish there was a way to give feedback on LinkedIn. The middle manager's profile is really funny to read. Apparently he runs all of big data at Microsoft. From Office. As a middle manager. Anyway, my point is there is opportunity to expose evil people and good people in their careers. We should find a way to do it safely. People should have an incentive to be good. EDIT: grammar mistakes

by chime 15y ago

anabis 15y ago

Yeah, Goldman Sachs made a predatory loan to Greece in 2002. That is just 2 years after this guy got hired.

refurb 15y ago
Got any details? Predatory loan usually refers to taking advantage of someone who doesn't know what they are getting themselves into. Are you saying that Greece lacks the financial knowledge to understand what they are signing?
- UrbanPat 15y ago
  Details abound: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-06/goldman-secret-greece-loan-shows-two-sinners-as-client-unravels.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-06/goldman-secret-gree... Greece wasn't innocent in this, but it's pretty obvious that Goldman took advantage of them.

larrys 15y ago

"When you're a fresh grad right out-of-college" It's called being wet behind the ears. Most people in that situation simply don't realize how much they don't know. And guess what you aren't going to be able to read about it and know either. You will find it out through life experience. The upside is you aren't jaded and you will try things that older people will avoid because of their wisdom and experience.

jflatow 15y ago

It might be that things never change and all attempts to bring back the good ol' culture are just reactionary, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't speak up when they feel disgusted by what's going on around them. Fear(s) motivate(s) people pretty well to do just about anything, including to keep silent (as you recommend), but I'm glad that people are brave enough, or stupid enough, to say what they think is right, even in the face of such fears. It might also turn out that the people who agree with the dissenters outnumber the powerful incumbents who they oppose.

yajoe 15y ago

I agree with your point that part of the cause is getting more senior and actually watching the lies. But I don't accept that we should condone that behavior. Full disclosure: I left Micosoft last year after I long debated the trade offs of starting my career over. I was a "top performer" and Microsoft makes a point of telling the many people like me to stick around for all sorts of reasons. Deferred compensation. Trajectory. Influence. Etc. But then I actually got into the VP's circle and didn't like what I saw. This smooth-talking, confident leader within Office was some kind of sociopath. He and his comrades snickered after a middle manager announced he would put the blame on someone for failing to deliver a major feature. I was confused when it happened. Like one big inside joke, that would be my initiation. This feature was promised three years ago to the previous President of the division, and it turned out to be a top priority for the incoming president. Well, the middle manager miscalculated and let it slip. We've all done this to some degree-- answer an email late, forget to deliver on a request -- it's part of being an engineer working with people. But the middle manager had done it at a big scale and was wrong. Rather than admit it because that would end his career (as I'll explain in a minute), he threw someone else under the bus. He asked this senior PM to take the project over. Rather than give her support, he decided to undermine her. He had people give copious amounts of negative feedback on her specs, held back people from working with her, and lied about progress to management. He was setting her up to fail so he could swoop in and deliver it after she failed without the wrath of being late. We've all seen managers excuse being late because of low performers. The VP and his manager needed to construct a low performer. And all he had to do was signal to the herd to stay away from her with all the negative feedback. The hell they put her through so they could save their asses. And the fucking snicker. She was a warm, smart, expert in this feature and had she been allowed to work she would have outdone the middle manager. But the middle manager was ambitious. And the VP seemed to like watching people destroy their lives. And he liked loyalty. He knew if he could get dirt on his managers he would keep them for a long time. I try to be a good person. I try to be honest. I try to stand up for people. But I couldn't help her. For a year I gave as much moral support as I could without the inner circle knowing. But the politics were too thick and toxic to touch. I watched her nervous breakdown. And then I knew I had to leave. Maybe it really was this one bad team. But this was the rising star VP. If this is how he succeeded then the others VPs would have to eventually. And the middle manager was his replacement. So, I got a different job. I took 3 months to travel in Europe to wash off the filth. And I checked in with my friend, and am pleased to hear that she has landed on her feet and is doing much better. At my current job the people argue about -- gasp -- the customer. What a difference. But I am still angry that evil people -- the VP, the middle managers -- are allowed to continue. I don't agree we're supposed to be quiet. Food critics used to be afraid of giving bad reviews because they wouldn't be allowed to keep their jobs (in local markets unless you were someone politics would prevail). Now we have Yelp. Really bad restaurants should have a hard time of hiding. I wish there was something like that for managers and companies without blowback. I wish there was a way to give feedback on LinkedIn. The middle manager's profile is really funny to read. Apparently he runs all of big data at Microsoft. From Office. As a middle manager. Anyway, my point is there is opportunity to expose evil people and good people in their careers. We should find a way to do it safely. People should have an incentive to be good. EDIT: grammar mistakes