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The author didn’t assert that sex work is the only job where women get to call the shots. The author suggested that could be a reason why it’s marginalized. Bec

by ses1984 3y ago

The author didn’t assert that sex work is the only job where women get to call the shots. The author suggested that could be a reason why it’s marginalized. Because if it was legitimized, then women would call the shots.

whimsicalism 3y ago
I did not read it that way and I think that she would have phrased it differently if so. “an industry where women get to call the shots” she would have said “would get” imo if your interpretation was correct, just as you use ‘would’ in your comment. I took her to be describing sex work in the present, not some hypothetical future sex work. Here is the excerpt for those who want to judge for themselves: ‘Unlike sex work, my “good” jobs didn’t threaten to overthrow traditional power structures. Many sex workers, including myself, have long hypothesized that the reason so many people in power work to keep the commercial sex trade marginalized is because they’re threatened by it—by the idea that it’s the only field where women outearn men, that it’s an industry where women get to call the shots, and that women profit off something that men have been told they’re entitled to for free: sex and attention in equal parts. In my experience of the corporate landscape, there was none of this radical power structure, only an upholding of the traditional: men talking and women listening, men in powerful positions getting both credit and profit for the labour of women beneath them’
- ses1984 3y ago
  People in power work to marginalize it because they’re threatened by it. It’s pretty successfully marginalized if a woman can get arrested for it even while sacrificing economic profits to a pimp or massage parlor. Maybe the author could have been more explicit about it but to my reading sex workers can’t be both marginalized and calling the shots.
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    > sex workers can’t be both marginalized and calling the shots Disagree. Calling the shots in the business, not in society. Just like a drug kingpin might be calling the shots in their organization.
    - ses1984 3y ago
      Comparing a drug kingpin to a prostitute is kind of ridiculous but if that makes sense in your mind then I doubt we would see eye to eye on pretty much anything.
      - whimsicalism 3y ago
        It was a counter-example in the analytic/math sense, I was in no way suggesting that a sex worker is equivalent to a drug kingpin. Merely an example as to why your assertion that [calling the shots is incompatible with overall societal marginalization] is wrong. Happy to not continue though, I think you struggle with good faith discussion and/or reading comprehension (:
  - barrenko 3y ago
    It's marginalized because it's a shitty job, like every other shitty job (source: I've worked a lot of shitty jobs.)
- zapataband1 3y ago
  Women can call more of the shots in places where it is legal like Nevada or other countries. Not saying it's a perfect system but the alterntive so far has been a trade that is controlled by criminals, bad customers, and law enforcement.
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    That’s not often true in sex work relying on a venue, and certainly not nevada, and the few women run organizations have the same power dynamics and labor problems as all the others Should really include sex workers in these discussions All this conjecture that its exclusively a male run coercive trait exacerbating anything
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    Not sure why you assume this would be the case and it also isn’t really all that true [0], nor has it been true historically in societies with legal prostitution nor is it true in other industries with many women frontline workers (like the makeup industry, obviously not that similar but I think is somewhat representative). [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Hof https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Hof
throwaway22044 3y ago
> Because if it was legitimized, then women would call the shots. If prostitution was legitimized, way fewer shots would have to be called in the first place. Apparently nobody wants that

whimsicalism 3y ago

I did not read it that way and I think that she would have phrased it differently if so. “an industry where women get to call the shots” she would have said “would get” imo if your interpretation was correct, just as you use ‘would’ in your comment. I took her to be describing sex work in the present, not some hypothetical future sex work. Here is the excerpt for those who want to judge for themselves: ‘Unlike sex work, my “good” jobs didn’t threaten to overthrow traditional power structures. Many sex workers, including myself, have long hypothesized that the reason so many people in power work to keep the commercial sex trade marginalized is because they’re threatened by it—by the idea that it’s the only field where women outearn men, that it’s an industry where women get to call the shots, and that women profit off something that men have been told they’re entitled to for free: sex and attention in equal parts. In my experience of the corporate landscape, there was none of this radical power structure, only an upholding of the traditional: men talking and women listening, men in powerful positions getting both credit and profit for the labour of women beneath them’

ses1984 3y ago
People in power work to marginalize it because they’re threatened by it. It’s pretty successfully marginalized if a woman can get arrested for it even while sacrificing economic profits to a pimp or massage parlor. Maybe the author could have been more explicit about it but to my reading sex workers can’t be both marginalized and calling the shots.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  > sex workers can’t be both marginalized and calling the shots Disagree. Calling the shots in the business, not in society. Just like a drug kingpin might be calling the shots in their organization.
  - ses1984 3y ago
    Comparing a drug kingpin to a prostitute is kind of ridiculous but if that makes sense in your mind then I doubt we would see eye to eye on pretty much anything.
    - whimsicalism 3y ago
      It was a counter-example in the analytic/math sense, I was in no way suggesting that a sex worker is equivalent to a drug kingpin. Merely an example as to why your assertion that [calling the shots is incompatible with overall societal marginalization] is wrong. Happy to not continue though, I think you struggle with good faith discussion and/or reading comprehension (:
- barrenko 3y ago
  It's marginalized because it's a shitty job, like every other shitty job (source: I've worked a lot of shitty jobs.)
zapataband1 3y ago
Women can call more of the shots in places where it is legal like Nevada or other countries. Not saying it's a perfect system but the alterntive so far has been a trade that is controlled by criminals, bad customers, and law enforcement.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  That’s not often true in sex work relying on a venue, and certainly not nevada, and the few women run organizations have the same power dynamics and labor problems as all the others Should really include sex workers in these discussions All this conjecture that its exclusively a male run coercive trait exacerbating anything
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  Not sure why you assume this would be the case and it also isn’t really all that true [0], nor has it been true historically in societies with legal prostitution nor is it true in other industries with many women frontline workers (like the makeup industry, obviously not that similar but I think is somewhat representative). [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Hof https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Hof

throwaway22044 3y ago

> Because if it was legitimized, then women would call the shots. If prostitution was legitimized, way fewer shots would have to be called in the first place. Apparently nobody wants that