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Yes. Given the regrettable failure of Wandel durch Handel, Russia would have attacked sooner or later. As it is, expending mostly obsolete European materiel in

Yes. Given the regrettable failure of Wandel durch Handel, Russia would have attacked sooner or later. As it is, expending mostly obsolete European materiel in a trade for Russian materiel at an extremely favorable ratio, in the course of a war fought off NATO soil with a reduced risk of nuclear escalation, is about the best possible scenario.

User23 3y ago
Have you got any impartial source for that “extremely favorable ratio” claim?
- scatters 3y ago
  There are no impartial sources. Oryx estimates a ratio of nearly 3:1, but do you class that as impartial?
  - User23 3y ago
    Based on their website, twitter feed, and CIA adjacency I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Oryx is firmly partial to Ukraine.
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > Based on their website, twitter feed, and CIA adjacency I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Oryx is firmly partial to Ukraine. Oryx is willing to add any losses to any list as long as they aren't already there. I have seen no sources that indicates Oryx is CIA adjacent?.
      - User23 3y ago
        > Oryx is willing to add any losses to any list as long as they aren't already there. Admittedly I only spent about ten minutes looking, but I was unable to find any documentation of any Ukrainian losses at all on their website. > I have seen no sources that indicates Oryx is CIA adjacent?. They're founded by Bellingcat alumni, which in turn is made up of CIA alumni. That's not saying either is a "CIA front" (while the CIA does have fronts, I certainly don't know what they are), but rather that they are definitely part of the extended family of the US "Intelligence Community."
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        > Admittedly I only spent about ten minutes looking, but I was unable to find any documentation of any Ukrainian losses at all on their website. Here's the URL for the Russian losses. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum... Here's the URL for the Ukrainian losses. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum... > They're founded by Bellingcat alumni, which in turn is made up of CIA alumni. That's not saying either is a "CIA front" (while the CIA does have fronts, I certainly don't know what they are), but rather that they are definitely part of the extended family of the US "Intelligence Community." If they are a part of the US "Intelligence Community" they are surely getting a raw deal as they are stopping the work because it never led to a job.

User23 3y ago

Have you got any impartial source for that “extremely favorable ratio” claim?

scatters 3y ago
There are no impartial sources. Oryx estimates a ratio of nearly 3:1, but do you class that as impartial?
- User23 3y ago
  Based on their website, twitter feed, and CIA adjacency I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Oryx is firmly partial to Ukraine.
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    > Based on their website, twitter feed, and CIA adjacency I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Oryx is firmly partial to Ukraine. Oryx is willing to add any losses to any list as long as they aren't already there. I have seen no sources that indicates Oryx is CIA adjacent?.
    - User23 3y ago
      > Oryx is willing to add any losses to any list as long as they aren't already there. Admittedly I only spent about ten minutes looking, but I was unable to find any documentation of any Ukrainian losses at all on their website. > I have seen no sources that indicates Oryx is CIA adjacent?. They're founded by Bellingcat alumni, which in turn is made up of CIA alumni. That's not saying either is a "CIA front" (while the CIA does have fronts, I certainly don't know what they are), but rather that they are definitely part of the extended family of the US "Intelligence Community."
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > Admittedly I only spent about ten minutes looking, but I was unable to find any documentation of any Ukrainian losses at all on their website. Here's the URL for the Russian losses. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum... Here's the URL for the Ukrainian losses. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum... > They're founded by Bellingcat alumni, which in turn is made up of CIA alumni. That's not saying either is a "CIA front" (while the CIA does have fronts, I certainly don't know what they are), but rather that they are definitely part of the extended family of the US "Intelligence Community." If they are a part of the US "Intelligence Community" they are surely getting a raw deal as they are stopping the work because it never led to a job.