5 ms·

Just had a flashback to a bunch of people being really dumb and upset about the seatbelt laws. A lot of people saying they'd basically just push against the ste

by hxegon 3y ago

Just had a flashback to a bunch of people being really dumb and upset about the seatbelt laws. A lot of people saying they'd basically just push against the steering wheel to prevent them from flying through the windshield. Vividly reminds me of a lot of anti-mask arguments today.

insickness 3y ago
[flagged]
- someNameIG 3y ago
  Things like context and situations change, risk assessments change. Vaccination rates, new treatments, n new understanding and information, different strains, have all changed since when mask mandate first came in.
- jasonpeacock 3y ago
  Actually, yes, I do. I wear a mask in the office every day, I wear a mask when shopping and anywhere else indoors in public. I have not eaten indoors at a restaurant since the pandemic began. And I haven't caught COVID yet. There's a 1/5 chance of developing Long COVID, and 1/4 change of your Long COVID lasting >1yr. Studies have shown repeated exposure to COVID causes _more_ organ damage, does _not_ increase immunity, and _increases_ risk of developing Long COVID. There's never been a question about efficacy of masks. We all know masks work, and they work best when everyone is wearing them correctly.
  - insickness 3y ago
    > There's never been a question about efficacy of masks. Absolutely wrong. There is no evidence that the typical masks worn prevent any spread. There is some evidence that N95s prevent spread, but most people don't wear those. https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/providers/do-masks-really-protect-against-covid-19-meta-analysis-authors-want-see-more-evidence https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/providers/do-masks-really-p...
    - c0nducktr 3y ago
      I'd wager the guy who's still wearing a mask in 2013 is wearing at least an N95. I'll also wager when they're talking about masks, they're talking about N95 or better masks. Edit: Oh, shit what do you know. They're wearing a P100 respirator.
    - defrost 3y ago
      The closing paragraph on your link that heavily cites the Cochrane Library meta-analysis: “After all masking and public health measures stopped SARS-1 in its tracks in Toronto, I would view the Cochrane Library meta-analysis findings with a large degree of skepticism.” and buried within: “Meta-analysis is a less than optimal methodology to apply to the issue of masking. Almost all included studies varied widely in their methodology, since it is very hard to ethically have a non-masking control group.”
  - jasonpeacock 3y ago
    And because someone will ask, this is the P100 half-face respirator I wear - it's the GVS ELIPSE P100 with Source Control: https://a.co/d/4qpL02o https://a.co/d/4qpL02o If you're going to wear a mask, do it right - you need at least a real N95 (head straps, not ear straps). The GVS respirator is more comfortable, better fitting, and less breathing resistance than a disposable N95.
  - thiht 3y ago
    > Actually, yes, I do. I wear a mask in the office every day, I wear a mask when shopping and anywhere else indoors in public. I have not eaten indoors at a restaurant since the pandemic began. And I haven't caught COVID yet. Sounds excessive and honestly a bit obsessive. I just followed the government recommendations, wore masks when mandatory, and went to restaurants the minute they were allowed to reopen, and have not caught covid either. Do you live in a place where covid is still a big risk? Or do you work in a place with higher risks, like healthcare related?
    - jasonpeacock 3y ago
      > Or do you work in a place with higher risks Unfortunately, today's open-office environments and return-to-office mandates are squeezing everyone together just like we were pre-pandemic, including multiple hour-long meetings a day with packed meeting rooms. If just 1 person present has COVID then those become high-risk environments. And it's happened - we have a large meeting, then the next week multiple people are out sick :( It sucks. I don't enjoy wearing a mask, I want to eat meals out and go to happy hour, I want to not have to think about the relative risk of every outing and errand. But since the world had decided COVID is not a concern anymore it's left each of us to do their own personal risk management. I really want to see a "cure" developed to treat/prevent the damage from COVID and or for COVID to evolve into something much more mild like the flu (ha!) which doesn't cause lasting damage. Alas, it is a crapshoot as to what happens when you catch COVID, and it changes each time.
- scoofy 3y ago
  >If the government is going to force people to wear masks, they better have two things in place: 1) proof of necessity and 2) proof of efficacy, both of which there were very valid questions during covid. Time-travel would make this an effective strategy in a public health context. Until that is developed, a "better safe than sorry" strategy is a perfectly reasonable approach. The entire point of representative government is to outsource difficult decisions to folks who can spend their time going through the details of very challenging trade-offs while the rest of us, you know, go to work.
- hxegon 3y ago
  Honestly I'd like too. Besides covid I've been sick a few times in the last year and I think a mask would have prevented that. I was really hoping they would be normalized now, for general public health, but it's somehow become a controversial thing in a few places I've lived before. I started noticing weird looks after everybody else stopped wearing one and started getting anxiety about it. Probably sounds dumb but I'd bet I'm not alone. I feel people wear masks less now compared to before covid, I used to at least see one every once in a while but outside of dentist offices and such I haven't seen one in a long, long time.
- bediger4000 3y ago
  I do when I take the bus to work. I didn't have a single head cold (or COVID), late 2019-2023. If wearing masks prevents respiratory flu/head colds/whatever, I'm going to wear a mask. I do wear KN-95 masks and I'm careful about fit.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  > Do you still wear a mask? You probably don't, Flew on a plane earlier this year and I definitely did. Also always still wear masks in actual healthcare settings or wherever else that I'm asked. Asking for proof of efficacy in the middle of a pandemic when millions of people are dying is also really weird. My brain might be strange, but it makes me imagine a solider asking for proof of efficacy of covering fire in a war or something like that (and our hospitals definitely turned into a warzone in the middle of the pandemic). Its a temporary restriction to deal with an active threat.
dude187 3y ago
[flagged]
- callalex 3y ago
  > masks did nothing What evidence do you have for this claim?
  - insickness 3y ago
    What evidence do you have that masks did prevent covid? The burden of proof is on you to show that they were effective if you are going to abridge people's rights. The only clear evidence of masks preventing covid were n95's. Most of the masks worn were not n95's.
- lijok 3y ago
  First time I'm hearing outside of insular forums that masks did nothing to combat covid spread. Very interested. Do you have any studies that you could point to regarding this?

by hxegon 3y ago

insickness 3y ago

[flagged]

someNameIG 3y ago
Things like context and situations change, risk assessments change. Vaccination rates, new treatments, n new understanding and information, different strains, have all changed since when mask mandate first came in.
jasonpeacock 3y ago
Actually, yes, I do. I wear a mask in the office every day, I wear a mask when shopping and anywhere else indoors in public. I have not eaten indoors at a restaurant since the pandemic began. And I haven't caught COVID yet. There's a 1/5 chance of developing Long COVID, and 1/4 change of your Long COVID lasting >1yr. Studies have shown repeated exposure to COVID causes _more_ organ damage, does _not_ increase immunity, and _increases_ risk of developing Long COVID. There's never been a question about efficacy of masks. We all know masks work, and they work best when everyone is wearing them correctly.
- insickness 3y ago
  > There's never been a question about efficacy of masks. Absolutely wrong. There is no evidence that the typical masks worn prevent any spread. There is some evidence that N95s prevent spread, but most people don't wear those. https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/providers/do-masks-really-protect-against-covid-19-meta-analysis-authors-want-see-more-evidence https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/providers/do-masks-really-p...
  - c0nducktr 3y ago
    I'd wager the guy who's still wearing a mask in 2013 is wearing at least an N95. I'll also wager when they're talking about masks, they're talking about N95 or better masks. Edit: Oh, shit what do you know. They're wearing a P100 respirator.
  - defrost 3y ago
    The closing paragraph on your link that heavily cites the Cochrane Library meta-analysis: “After all masking and public health measures stopped SARS-1 in its tracks in Toronto, I would view the Cochrane Library meta-analysis findings with a large degree of skepticism.” and buried within: “Meta-analysis is a less than optimal methodology to apply to the issue of masking. Almost all included studies varied widely in their methodology, since it is very hard to ethically have a non-masking control group.”
- jasonpeacock 3y ago
  And because someone will ask, this is the P100 half-face respirator I wear - it's the GVS ELIPSE P100 with Source Control: https://a.co/d/4qpL02o https://a.co/d/4qpL02o If you're going to wear a mask, do it right - you need at least a real N95 (head straps, not ear straps). The GVS respirator is more comfortable, better fitting, and less breathing resistance than a disposable N95.
- thiht 3y ago
  > Actually, yes, I do. I wear a mask in the office every day, I wear a mask when shopping and anywhere else indoors in public. I have not eaten indoors at a restaurant since the pandemic began. And I haven't caught COVID yet. Sounds excessive and honestly a bit obsessive. I just followed the government recommendations, wore masks when mandatory, and went to restaurants the minute they were allowed to reopen, and have not caught covid either. Do you live in a place where covid is still a big risk? Or do you work in a place with higher risks, like healthcare related?
  - jasonpeacock 3y ago
    > Or do you work in a place with higher risks Unfortunately, today's open-office environments and return-to-office mandates are squeezing everyone together just like we were pre-pandemic, including multiple hour-long meetings a day with packed meeting rooms. If just 1 person present has COVID then those become high-risk environments. And it's happened - we have a large meeting, then the next week multiple people are out sick :( It sucks. I don't enjoy wearing a mask, I want to eat meals out and go to happy hour, I want to not have to think about the relative risk of every outing and errand. But since the world had decided COVID is not a concern anymore it's left each of us to do their own personal risk management. I really want to see a "cure" developed to treat/prevent the damage from COVID and or for COVID to evolve into something much more mild like the flu (ha!) which doesn't cause lasting damage. Alas, it is a crapshoot as to what happens when you catch COVID, and it changes each time.
scoofy 3y ago
>If the government is going to force people to wear masks, they better have two things in place: 1) proof of necessity and 2) proof of efficacy, both of which there were very valid questions during covid. Time-travel would make this an effective strategy in a public health context. Until that is developed, a "better safe than sorry" strategy is a perfectly reasonable approach. The entire point of representative government is to outsource difficult decisions to folks who can spend their time going through the details of very challenging trade-offs while the rest of us, you know, go to work.
hxegon 3y ago
Honestly I'd like too. Besides covid I've been sick a few times in the last year and I think a mask would have prevented that. I was really hoping they would be normalized now, for general public health, but it's somehow become a controversial thing in a few places I've lived before. I started noticing weird looks after everybody else stopped wearing one and started getting anxiety about it. Probably sounds dumb but I'd bet I'm not alone. I feel people wear masks less now compared to before covid, I used to at least see one every once in a while but outside of dentist offices and such I haven't seen one in a long, long time.
bediger4000 3y ago
I do when I take the bus to work. I didn't have a single head cold (or COVID), late 2019-2023. If wearing masks prevents respiratory flu/head colds/whatever, I'm going to wear a mask. I do wear KN-95 masks and I'm careful about fit.
lamontcg 3y ago
> Do you still wear a mask? You probably don't, Flew on a plane earlier this year and I definitely did. Also always still wear masks in actual healthcare settings or wherever else that I'm asked. Asking for proof of efficacy in the middle of a pandemic when millions of people are dying is also really weird. My brain might be strange, but it makes me imagine a solider asking for proof of efficacy of covering fire in a war or something like that (and our hospitals definitely turned into a warzone in the middle of the pandemic). Its a temporary restriction to deal with an active threat.

dude187 3y ago

[flagged]

callalex 3y ago
> masks did nothing What evidence do you have for this claim?
- insickness 3y ago
  What evidence do you have that masks did prevent covid? The burden of proof is on you to show that they were effective if you are going to abridge people's rights. The only clear evidence of masks preventing covid were n95's. Most of the masks worn were not n95's.
lijok 3y ago
First time I'm hearing outside of insular forums that masks did nothing to combat covid spread. Very interested. Do you have any studies that you could point to regarding this?