5 ms·

Food rations in communist Poland, early 1980s

26 points by mrzool 3y ago

Iulioh 3y ago
I count around 40.000 calories worth of food in the main photo Anyway, cigarettes are not mentioned in the article, wondering why
lijok 3y ago
Lucky lady in the main photo with a 2.5kg haul of meat That was worth a lot of vodka and cigarettes in the lines We used to stand in line from 6am until 12-4pm. Siblings would take turns on who got to go to school that day and who had to stand in line. Eventually some schools started doing a 12pm start for half the school. Rarely did we get meat, almost never veg aside from potatoes. Resulted in some very creative but delicious recipes.
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
The early-mid 1980s was a tough time, but it is remarkable how rationing had been overcome by the late 1980s. Near the end of the decade, a Polish–Russian relative of mine was delivering food to friends and family in Russia, because some products were now relatively abundant in Poland while Russia dealt with shortages. My own, purely anecdotal impression from looking at the background of photos and video recordings from Poland circa 1988–1989 is that that country (or at least a few parts of it) was already better off than other Warsaw Pact countries.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
mistrial9 3y ago
both cigarettes and liquor are tremendously addictive; yet the allocation is written as "essential" .. only decades earlier, massive and cruel killing spread across that region, persistent the minds of so many. This bit of history is completely foreign to me and I am listening, but there is more going on that what is being discussed. Like a family argument, where the thing said is to hurt the opponent more than the center of the conflict.
- lijok 3y ago
  Cigarettes were essential to keep the masses happy, and alcohol was essential to keep the masses too drunk to rebel if the cigarettes didn't do the trick
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    > Cigarettes were essential to keep the masses happy this is so completely not-real -- it leaves no doubt that this story is still a mystery
    - lijok 3y ago
      What's not real? Could you elaborate?
      - mistrial9 3y ago
        When an alcoholic tells me that they are "deprived of essentials" I say to them.. go to a clinic and get sober. Zero people are born smoking cigarettes.. Tobacco is from the new world, and definitely, deeply addictive. The word "essential" is related to the core, the most core needs. Let's be honest. It is some combination of "aspiration", luxury goods, being cool, Who is in Charge, and economics.. Yes waiting in lines is real. I hear you! but that is not the whole story. Every American newspaper had the pictures of Lech Wałęsa with Solidarność at that time. Later, I heard that the reason the Soviet Union fell was because people wanted Beatles records! my friend -- I do not believe that liquor and cigarettes are "essential" .. there is more to this story.
        tekla 3y ago
        They are essential if you dont want the people attempting to hang members of the govt from the nearest tree
        mistrial9 3y ago
        where is the Most Holy and Apostolic Church of Rome in this story? surely hanging officials is sin?
ChumpGPT 3y ago
This is what communism brought for those who lived under it. After 50 years people had to line up to get their food. Just look around the world and see what people who live under that system reap, poverty and slavery. Thank God Poland freed itself from that evil imposed on it by Russia who was the main driver of that garbage. Can you believe Russia still glorifies it and celebrates it's hero's Lenin and Stalin, insane.....
- warning26 3y ago
  Don't worry, random internet commenters have assured me that it's only because literally every country who tried communism didn't do it correctly. If we try again, it'll definitely lead to a utopia.
  - rvnx 3y ago
    Well these ration tickets are the ultimate stage of a planned economy; the purest communist dream.
  - lijok 3y ago
    You would be very surprised how many 60+ year olds that lived through soviet occupation would agree with that statement. It's bizarre..
    - rvnx 3y ago
      The same way that North Korean people may not want to be freed. They are used to some system, where others are responsible and deciding of their life. And this brings a lot of psychological comfort, and simplicity (no choice = it's easy to choose). It's psychologically much easier to have others deciding, and to complain about the result, than having to take ownership and responsibility for your life and your choices. If you don't have a choice, you can't do a wrong choice.
      - lijok 3y ago
        That makes sense
owenversteeg 3y ago
I estimated from the photo: Vodka: 231 kcal/100ml * 500ml = 1155 kcal Meat: say 300 kcal/100g * 2.5kg = 7500 kcal Butter: 717 kcal/100g * 500g = 3585 kcal Cooking oil: 884 kcal/100g * say 300g = 2652 kcal Sweets: say 387 kcal/100g * 250g = 967 kcal Rice, uncooked: 364 kcal/100g * 1.3kg = 4732 kcal Sugar: 387 kcal/100g * 2kg = 7740 kcal Flour: 364 kcal/100g * 1.3kg = 4732 kcal Total 1155+7500+3585+2652+967+4732+7740+4732 = 33063 kcal That's 33063 kcal for a month, or 1086 kcal per day on average... how? Long-term, that's a starvation diet, and that's assuming you consume every gram of everything you get including the cooking oil, the vodka, and the unhealthy amount of sugar. [edit] I see now that some products were not rationed, but still, this seems like a rather restrictive diet and indeed from the article: >In mid-1981 thousands of Poles took part in several hunger demonstrations, organized in cities and towns across the country. >Banners, held by the protesters, stated among others: “Our children are hungry”, “We stand in lines 24 hours a day”, “We want to split bread, not Poland”, “The hungry of all countries – unite!”, and “We are not going to work hungry”.
- Aleklart 3y ago
  Oh these commies! Starved to death polaks so much they doubled in count. It is not what you allowed to buy at all, it is what you allowed to buy for low fixed price. Food stamps. Bread milk and pretty much everything else you can eat as much as you want. Meat can be bought on market, for much higher price.
  - batter 3y ago
    Hm... leftists tales. 'As much as you want' - As much as you can afford. And this is completely different story.
  - msm_ 3y ago
    Please stop rewriting history. Read the comments left in this thread by actual Polish people that lived through this, and reconsider if that really was a good system to live in. Let's learn from history instead of throwing away lessons we've painfully learned. Sincerely, a Polish person (by the way, I'm not a native speaker, but I believe "Polacks" is a derogatory term. I don't mind personally, but someone may be offended by the use of an ethnic slur. If that's not what you intended, "Poles" or "Polish people" are usually used instead).
perihelions 3y ago
- "Article based on A ration card for survival – rationing in Communist Poland by Andrzej Zawistowski" I don't think you can copy-and-paste large exact text passages in bulk [0] and pass it off as "based on". This is simply plagiarism. [0] https://polishhistory.pl/a-ration-card-for-survival-rationing-in-communist-poland/ https://polishhistory.pl/a-ration-card-for-survival-rationin... I remember this website: I caught it on HN plagiarizing Wikipedia in a different article (with zero attribution in that case) [1]. It's a spam domain of some kind, it's not legitimate in any sense. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36032869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36032869
baal80spam 3y ago
I lived through that. The famous socialist ideas in practice - we even had a saying for this in Poland: equal shit for everyone.
- rvnx 3y ago
  Here: Everybody is equal, but some are more equal than others.
talldatethrow 3y ago
I'm from Poland. We moved the US when I was a young child. I still remember taking a picture around 1990 after going to Costco/PriceClub the day my dad got a raise to $20 an hour. We bought a lot of groceries, put them on the kitchen table, and took a timed photo the 3 of us and all the groceries.
HDMI_Cable 3y ago
So many interesting things here: first, only .5L of vodka per month? That surprises me, as I know people who would go through that in a single weekend, let alone an entire month... especially in Poland, known for their drinking culture, that little amount of (what seems to be cheap to produce) alcohol is striking. Second, these are all just staples: the only real things one could make out of these rations are bread, meat, and rice—which is odd in of itself: I wouldn't expect rice to be a part of the Polish diet. I'm assuming vegetables and other foods like that weren't rationed, and/or people grew it themselves.
- getwiththeprog 3y ago
  Rice and pork rolled in cabbage leaf and cooked in tomato sauce, for one I know.
hurril 3y ago
This would be so much better than our current capitalist system!
- batter 3y ago
  If there is anything I can help you to get to your communist dream country let me know. Coz now it sounds like anti-vaccer with 3 vaccines.
trav4225 3y ago
"The central planning system, while intended to ensure equitable distribution, was riddled with inefficiencies and mismanagement." I'm shocked. Shocked, I say!
trav4225 3y ago
"The central planning system, while intended to ensure equitable distribution, was riddled with inefficiencies and mismanagement." I'm shocked. *Shocked*, I say!

26 points by mrzool 3y ago

I count around 40.000 calories worth of food in the main photo Anyway, cigarettes are not mentioned in the article, wondering why

lijok 3y ago

Lucky lady in the main photo with a 2.5kg haul of meat That was worth a lot of vodka and cigarettes in the lines We used to stand in line from 6am until 12-4pm. Siblings would take turns on who got to go to school that day and who had to stand in line. Eventually some schools started doing a 12pm start for half the school. Rarely did we get meat, almost never veg aside from potatoes. Resulted in some very creative but delicious recipes.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

The early-mid 1980s was a tough time, but it is remarkable how rationing had been overcome by the late 1980s. Near the end of the decade, a Polish–Russian relative of mine was delivering food to friends and family in Russia, because some products were now relatively abundant in Poland while Russia dealt with shortages. My own, purely anecdotal impression from looking at the background of photos and video recordings from Poland circa 1988–1989 is that that country (or at least a few parts of it) was already better off than other Warsaw Pact countries.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

mistrial9 3y ago

both cigarettes and liquor are tremendously addictive; yet the allocation is written as "essential" .. only decades earlier, massive and cruel killing spread across that region, persistent the minds of so many. This bit of history is completely foreign to me and I am listening, but there is more going on that what is being discussed. Like a family argument, where the thing said is to hurt the opponent more than the center of the conflict.

lijok 3y ago
Cigarettes were essential to keep the masses happy, and alcohol was essential to keep the masses too drunk to rebel if the cigarettes didn't do the trick
- mistrial9 3y ago
  > Cigarettes were essential to keep the masses happy this is so completely not-real -- it leaves no doubt that this story is still a mystery
  - lijok 3y ago
    What's not real? Could you elaborate?
    - mistrial9 3y ago
      When an alcoholic tells me that they are "deprived of essentials" I say to them.. go to a clinic and get sober. Zero people are born smoking cigarettes.. Tobacco is from the new world, and definitely, deeply addictive. The word "essential" is related to the core, the most core needs. Let's be honest. It is some combination of "aspiration", luxury goods, being cool, Who is in Charge, and economics.. Yes waiting in lines is real. I hear you! but that is not the whole story. Every American newspaper had the pictures of Lech Wałęsa with Solidarność at that time. Later, I heard that the reason the Soviet Union fell was because people wanted Beatles records! my friend -- I do not believe that liquor and cigarettes are "essential" .. there is more to this story.
      - tekla 3y ago
        They are essential if you dont want the people attempting to hang members of the govt from the nearest tree
        mistrial9 3y ago
        where is the Most Holy and Apostolic Church of Rome in this story? surely hanging officials is sin?

ChumpGPT 3y ago

This is what communism brought for those who lived under it. After 50 years people had to line up to get their food. Just look around the world and see what people who live under that system reap, poverty and slavery. Thank God Poland freed itself from that evil imposed on it by Russia who was the main driver of that garbage. Can you believe Russia still glorifies it and celebrates it's hero's Lenin and Stalin, insane.....

warning26 3y ago
Don't worry, random internet commenters have assured me that it's only because literally every country who tried communism didn't do it correctly. If we try again, it'll definitely lead to a utopia.
- rvnx 3y ago
  Well these ration tickets are the ultimate stage of a planned economy; the purest communist dream.
- lijok 3y ago
  You would be very surprised how many 60+ year olds that lived through soviet occupation would agree with that statement. It's bizarre..
  - rvnx 3y ago
    The same way that North Korean people may not want to be freed. They are used to some system, where others are responsible and deciding of their life. And this brings a lot of psychological comfort, and simplicity (no choice = it's easy to choose). It's psychologically much easier to have others deciding, and to complain about the result, than having to take ownership and responsibility for your life and your choices. If you don't have a choice, you can't do a wrong choice.
    - lijok 3y ago
      That makes sense

owenversteeg 3y ago

I estimated from the photo: Vodka: 231 kcal/100ml * 500ml = 1155 kcal Meat: say 300 kcal/100g * 2.5kg = 7500 kcal Butter: 717 kcal/100g * 500g = 3585 kcal Cooking oil: 884 kcal/100g * say 300g = 2652 kcal Sweets: say 387 kcal/100g * 250g = 967 kcal Rice, uncooked: 364 kcal/100g * 1.3kg = 4732 kcal Sugar: 387 kcal/100g * 2kg = 7740 kcal Flour: 364 kcal/100g * 1.3kg = 4732 kcal Total 1155+7500+3585+2652+967+4732+7740+4732 = 33063 kcal That's 33063 kcal for a month, or 1086 kcal per day on average... how? Long-term, that's a starvation diet, and that's assuming you consume every gram of everything you get including the cooking oil, the vodka, and the unhealthy amount of sugar. [edit] I see now that some products were not rationed, but still, this seems like a rather restrictive diet and indeed from the article: >In mid-1981 thousands of Poles took part in several hunger demonstrations, organized in cities and towns across the country. >Banners, held by the protesters, stated among others: “Our children are hungry”, “We stand in lines 24 hours a day”, “We want to split bread, not Poland”, “The hungry of all countries – unite!”, and “We are not going to work hungry”.

Aleklart 3y ago
Oh these commies! Starved to death polaks so much they doubled in count. It is not what you allowed to buy at all, it is what you allowed to buy for low fixed price. Food stamps. Bread milk and pretty much everything else you can eat as much as you want. Meat can be bought on market, for much higher price.
- batter 3y ago
  Hm... leftists tales. 'As much as you want' - As much as you can afford. And this is completely different story.
- msm_ 3y ago
  Please stop rewriting history. Read the comments left in this thread by actual Polish people that lived through this, and reconsider if that really was a good system to live in. Let's learn from history instead of throwing away lessons we've painfully learned. Sincerely, a Polish person (by the way, I'm not a native speaker, but I believe "Polacks" is a derogatory term. I don't mind personally, but someone may be offended by the use of an ethnic slur. If that's not what you intended, "Poles" or "Polish people" are usually used instead).

perihelions 3y ago

- "Article based on A ration card for survival – rationing in Communist Poland by Andrzej Zawistowski" I don't think you can copy-and-paste large exact text passages in bulk [0] and pass it off as "based on". This is simply plagiarism. [0] https://polishhistory.pl/a-ration-card-for-survival-rationing-in-communist-poland/ https://polishhistory.pl/a-ration-card-for-survival-rationin... I remember this website: I caught it on HN plagiarizing Wikipedia in a different article (with zero attribution in that case) [1]. It's a spam domain of some kind, it's not legitimate in any sense. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36032869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36032869

baal80spam 3y ago

I lived through that. The famous socialist ideas in practice - we even had a saying for this in Poland: equal shit for everyone.

rvnx 3y ago
Here: Everybody is equal, but some are more equal than others.

talldatethrow 3y ago

I'm from Poland. We moved the US when I was a young child. I still remember taking a picture around 1990 after going to Costco/PriceClub the day my dad got a raise to $20 an hour. We bought a lot of groceries, put them on the kitchen table, and took a timed photo the 3 of us and all the groceries.

HDMI_Cable 3y ago

So many interesting things here: first, only .5L of vodka per month? That surprises me, as I know people who would go through that in a single weekend, let alone an entire month... especially in Poland, known for their drinking culture, that little amount of (what seems to be cheap to produce) alcohol is striking. Second, these are all just staples: the only real things one could make out of these rations are bread, meat, and rice—which is odd in of itself: I wouldn't expect rice to be a part of the Polish diet. I'm assuming vegetables and other foods like that weren't rationed, and/or people grew it themselves.

getwiththeprog 3y ago
Rice and pork rolled in cabbage leaf and cooked in tomato sauce, for one I know.

hurril 3y ago

This would be so much better than our current capitalist system!

batter 3y ago
If there is anything I can help you to get to your communist dream country let me know. Coz now it sounds like anti-vaccer with 3 vaccines.

trav4225 3y ago

"The central planning system, while intended to ensure equitable distribution, was riddled with inefficiencies and mismanagement." I'm shocked. Shocked, I say!

trav4225 3y ago

"The central planning system, while intended to ensure equitable distribution, was riddled with inefficiencies and mismanagement." I'm shocked. *Shocked*, I say!