6 ms·

That's definitely a karma-reducing opinion on HN.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
Because it’s in the same category as crossing one’s fingers and hoping for fusion. People don’t voluntarily reduce their living standards en masse without a fight.
- Retric 3y ago
  Per capita electricity demand did fall dramatically in the US. Mostly from more efficient technology that doesn’t reduce peoples standards of living.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    We’re closer to flat [1]. That said, your broader point stands: the energy intensity of American GDP is falling [2]. My point is relying on that trend continuing is akin to relying on the promise of fusion. Worth pursuing. But unlikely to yield to brute effort the way cleaning up primary production and transport can. [1] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=49036 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=49036 [2] https://www.iea.org/reports/sdg7-data-and-projections/energy-intensity https://www.iea.org/reports/sdg7-data-and-projections/energy...
    - Retric 3y ago
      The high and low points are IMO dramatic at the scale of the US. I suspect EV’s are going to continue to reverse this tend in the short term but efficiency is still very meaningful even if it’s never going to solve the problem.
    - fbdab103 3y ago
      That stat was surprising to me, I had assumed that light bulbs alone would have made a big dent in things (ie 60W vs 10W per bulb). They had a separate page [0] detailing some consumer habits which had some interesting nuggets. The overall point is that heating/cooling dominates residential usage, which is more than enough to swamp out efficiency gains from TVs, refrigerators, etc. Evidently light bulb installation is significantly lower than I expected. I was unaware you could trivially acquire incandescent bulbs any more. >In 2009, 58% of all households used at least one energy-efficient bulb indoors. In the 2015 RECS, which was administered from August 2015 to April 2016, 86% of households reported using at least one CFL or LED bulb. Nationwide, 18% of households responding to the latest RECS reported that they had no incandescent bulbs in their homes. Also noteworthy that household consumption was based on electricity sales. Homes with installed solar/wind/battery would be under-represented in the stats, meaning overall consumption is higher than reported. [0] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=32212 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=32212
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > household consumption was based on electricity sales. Homes with installed solar/wind/battery would be under-represented in the stats, meaning overall consumption is higher than reported I hadn’t considered this. Thank you.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Aerbil313 3y ago
  Religion can effectively make people go against their desires, especially those for more. This is the one unthinkable option for the average HN user. See Islam.
Zigurd 3y ago
I agree with what the commenter is saying. But it's off topic. More offshore wind energy has no effect on demand reduction.

Because it’s in the same category as crossing one’s fingers and hoping for fusion. People don’t voluntarily reduce their living standards en masse without a fight.

Retric 3y ago
Per capita electricity demand did fall dramatically in the US. Mostly from more efficient technology that doesn’t reduce peoples standards of living.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  We’re closer to flat [1]. That said, your broader point stands: the energy intensity of American GDP is falling [2]. My point is relying on that trend continuing is akin to relying on the promise of fusion. Worth pursuing. But unlikely to yield to brute effort the way cleaning up primary production and transport can. [1] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=49036 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=49036 [2] https://www.iea.org/reports/sdg7-data-and-projections/energy-intensity https://www.iea.org/reports/sdg7-data-and-projections/energy...
  - Retric 3y ago
    The high and low points are IMO dramatic at the scale of the US. I suspect EV’s are going to continue to reverse this tend in the short term but efficiency is still very meaningful even if it’s never going to solve the problem.
  - fbdab103 3y ago
    That stat was surprising to me, I had assumed that light bulbs alone would have made a big dent in things (ie 60W vs 10W per bulb). They had a separate page [0] detailing some consumer habits which had some interesting nuggets. The overall point is that heating/cooling dominates residential usage, which is more than enough to swamp out efficiency gains from TVs, refrigerators, etc. Evidently light bulb installation is significantly lower than I expected. I was unaware you could trivially acquire incandescent bulbs any more. >In 2009, 58% of all households used at least one energy-efficient bulb indoors. In the 2015 RECS, which was administered from August 2015 to April 2016, 86% of households reported using at least one CFL or LED bulb. Nationwide, 18% of households responding to the latest RECS reported that they had no incandescent bulbs in their homes. Also noteworthy that household consumption was based on electricity sales. Homes with installed solar/wind/battery would be under-represented in the stats, meaning overall consumption is higher than reported. [0] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=32212 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=32212
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > household consumption was based on electricity sales. Homes with installed solar/wind/battery would be under-represented in the stats, meaning overall consumption is higher than reported I hadn’t considered this. Thank you.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Aerbil313 3y ago
Religion can effectively make people go against their desires, especially those for more. This is the one unthinkable option for the average HN user. See Islam.

Zigurd 3y ago

I agree with what the commenter is saying. But it's off topic. More offshore wind energy has no effect on demand reduction.