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Same experience here. My analysis is it's a money milking scheme between groups of doctors. Pass you around so everyone gets a cut and they cross refer people t

Same experience here. My analysis is it's a money milking scheme between groups of doctors. Pass you around so everyone gets a cut and they cross refer people to scratch each other's backs. Surgeon refers you to pain management and pain management refers you to surgeon. Add in a physical therapist, testing facility, and chiropractor and you got a pretty lucrative meshnet of referrals going.

basisword 3y ago
Tbf in my case this was NHS so no money to be made by referrals afaik. It mostly seems to be a lack of up-to date knowledge paired with a reluctance to take the initiative and research the latest information for a specific case. As a substitute they refer you up the chain where the same problem also exists.
- wizofaus 3y ago
  > NHS so no money to be made by referrals afaik I wouldn't assume that - just because the money isn't coming from your pocket directly, it's inevitable there are doctors that milk the system. But you'd think bureaucrats whose job it is to assess the legitimacy of requests to the NHS (or equivalent institution in your own country) for payment might be harder to swindle than your typical patient.
darkerside 3y ago
Hanlons razor
maeil 3y ago
While this might happen, it's certainly a tiny minority of cases. In most cases it's just too big of an ego to admit that they really don't know, and not willing (private practice) or unable to (employed by a big hospital) spend the large amount of time needed to raise the chance of finding the cause from 0% to maybe 2%. Truth is that modern medicine still knows much less than is often assumed, let alone individual doctors. There's an absurd amount of potential for LLMs here.
- newaccount74 3y ago
  I was with you until the last sentence: > There's an absurd amount of potential for LLMs here. The problem is not that doctors are stupid, the problem is that a lot of ailments are just not easily diagnosed. Even if the doctor has one (or more) suspicions what the red rash on your skin is, there just aren't any tests for many conditions. Many diseases are only diagnosed by symptoms and the underlying cause is unknown. And even if you get a diagnosis, there is often nothing you can do. LLMs are not going to magically come up with cures.
  - palata 3y ago
    Is LLM the new web3, where people just keep throwing it as a solution for every problem they encounter? Seems like it... Maybe soon they will throw LK-99 at every problem?
    - arolihas 3y ago
      LK-99 is already on the blockchain https://coinbrain.com/coins/bnb-0xb131f5e8ec273af4652eecdd87976891513a6778 https://coinbrain.com/coins/bnb-0xb131f5e8ec273af4652eecdd87... This will change everything
    - Retric 3y ago
      People always default to whatever the new thing is being somewhat magical. Radiation as a medical cure all didn’t age particularly well, but it’s not like the same people are falling into the trap. It’s been common across many generations and cultures, I doubt it’s going to change any time soon.
  - mapt 3y ago
    > Even if the doctor has one (or more) suspicions what the red rash on your skin is, there just aren't any tests for many conditions. There aren't any tests that the doctor has on hand, because the doctor is a unit in the medical system designed to provision affordable care instead of a scientist attempting to cure you. It would be too expensive to test you, especially for something that will probably go away on its own.
Etrnl_President 3y ago
Read HIPAA when you get the chance; Specifically how to calculate cost. Everyone who talks to the patient, who touches them, and who is consulted by the doctor, gets to charge. Yup, that means if another doctor happens to walk by, and confirms what he just told me, he gets to charge me again (double). Feels like theatre every time I go to the doctor, so I just tell the secretary "I'm talking to you and Doc, no one else", and just quietly stare at anyone else who pops in. Usually insurance covers this stuff, but I was uninsured when I discovered it .
selcuka 3y ago
> My analysis is it's a money milking scheme between groups of doctors. Pass you around so everyone gets a cut and they cross refer people to scratch each other's backs. This is accurate. Years ago I had a kidney stone and the GP asked for an IVU (Intravenous urography) image to make sure about the size. The report prepared by the radiologist had the statement "operation is required". When I got back to my GP just laughed sarcastically and told me that it was nothing to be worried of. He also said "the radiologist just wanted to return the favor, in case the GP wanted to operate". He was sick of this scheme too, but there was nothing he could do.
prawn 3y ago
Most of the complaints I read in this conversation have been about people NOT getting referred for scans when they've reported discomfort!

basisword 3y ago

Tbf in my case this was NHS so no money to be made by referrals afaik. It mostly seems to be a lack of up-to date knowledge paired with a reluctance to take the initiative and research the latest information for a specific case. As a substitute they refer you up the chain where the same problem also exists.

wizofaus 3y ago
> NHS so no money to be made by referrals afaik I wouldn't assume that - just because the money isn't coming from your pocket directly, it's inevitable there are doctors that milk the system. But you'd think bureaucrats whose job it is to assess the legitimacy of requests to the NHS (or equivalent institution in your own country) for payment might be harder to swindle than your typical patient.

darkerside 3y ago

Hanlons razor

maeil 3y ago

While this might happen, it's certainly a tiny minority of cases. In most cases it's just too big of an ego to admit that they really don't know, and not willing (private practice) or unable to (employed by a big hospital) spend the large amount of time needed to raise the chance of finding the cause from 0% to maybe 2%. Truth is that modern medicine still knows much less than is often assumed, let alone individual doctors. There's an absurd amount of potential for LLMs here.

newaccount74 3y ago
I was with you until the last sentence: > There's an absurd amount of potential for LLMs here. The problem is not that doctors are stupid, the problem is that a lot of ailments are just not easily diagnosed. Even if the doctor has one (or more) suspicions what the red rash on your skin is, there just aren't any tests for many conditions. Many diseases are only diagnosed by symptoms and the underlying cause is unknown. And even if you get a diagnosis, there is often nothing you can do. LLMs are not going to magically come up with cures.
- palata 3y ago
  Is LLM the new web3, where people just keep throwing it as a solution for every problem they encounter? Seems like it... Maybe soon they will throw LK-99 at every problem?
  - arolihas 3y ago
    LK-99 is already on the blockchain https://coinbrain.com/coins/bnb-0xb131f5e8ec273af4652eecdd87976891513a6778 https://coinbrain.com/coins/bnb-0xb131f5e8ec273af4652eecdd87... This will change everything
  - Retric 3y ago
    People always default to whatever the new thing is being somewhat magical. Radiation as a medical cure all didn’t age particularly well, but it’s not like the same people are falling into the trap. It’s been common across many generations and cultures, I doubt it’s going to change any time soon.
- mapt 3y ago
  > Even if the doctor has one (or more) suspicions what the red rash on your skin is, there just aren't any tests for many conditions. There aren't any tests that the doctor has on hand, because the doctor is a unit in the medical system designed to provision affordable care instead of a scientist attempting to cure you. It would be too expensive to test you, especially for something that will probably go away on its own.

Etrnl_President 3y ago

Read HIPAA when you get the chance; Specifically how to calculate cost. Everyone who talks to the patient, who touches them, and who is consulted by the doctor, gets to charge. Yup, that means if another doctor happens to walk by, and confirms what he just told me, he gets to charge me again (double). Feels like theatre every time I go to the doctor, so I just tell the secretary "I'm talking to you and Doc, no one else", and just quietly stare at anyone else who pops in. Usually insurance covers this stuff, but I was uninsured when I discovered it .

selcuka 3y ago

> My analysis is it's a money milking scheme between groups of doctors. Pass you around so everyone gets a cut and they cross refer people to scratch each other's backs. This is accurate. Years ago I had a kidney stone and the GP asked for an IVU (Intravenous urography) image to make sure about the size. The report prepared by the radiologist had the statement "operation is required". When I got back to my GP just laughed sarcastically and told me that it was nothing to be worried of. He also said "the radiologist just wanted to return the favor, in case the GP wanted to operate". He was sick of this scheme too, but there was nothing he could do.

prawn 3y ago

Most of the complaints I read in this conversation have been about people NOT getting referred for scans when they've reported discomfort!