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Good for you figuring this out. I always point out to my wife that an expert with a financial benefit in the advice they are giving you is potentially more dang

Good for you figuring this out. I always point out to my wife that an expert with a financial benefit in the advice they are giving you is potentially more dangerous than an amateur. If you are a dentist, "more dentistry" is likely to resonate with them as a solution, especially if that means they charge for doing the work. No different than if you ask a software developer if you should hire them to automate some process. A true pro may say "nah it's not worth it for you" but that's rare... It's fashionable to dunk on folks who "do their own research" but I admire that more than those who are proud of unquestionably taking direction from vested parties.

Waterluvian 3y ago
I think the “do your own research” label conflates two categories: people who are shopping for a comforting answer, and people who want to be informed and make conscious decisions. I don’t have to be a dental expert to know that something isn’t adding up and to seek a second opinion.
- hunson_abadeer 3y ago
  I think it's easy to come up with such delineation after the fact, but OP was looking for a more comforting answer. By the sound of it, they just didn't like the implications of the initial diagnosis. It wasn't about facts not adding up. The reality is that modern medicine is absolutely amazing, but there are also many interventions backed by shoddy science or no science at all. Sometimes, "doing your own research" exposes such lapses. Sometimes, it sends you off the deep end and you end up chasing ghosts. To allow the former, you need to tolerate some of the latter. And yeah, sometimes the shoddy science involves interventions so basic and so common that you'd think they're sorted out. Consider that Europe and the US take wildly divergent views on topics such as wisdom teeth, colonoscopies, or the value of flu vaccines. "Science literacy" doesn't shield you from being wrong. Maybe it helps, but there's no shortage of Nobel laureates who believe in conspiracy theories or promote dubious medical treatments. Talking about "science literacy" is usually just how geeks convince themselves that their beliefs can't be wrong.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    It’s funny how every generation of modern medicine acts like this time they know 100% what the correct answers are while we all scoff at how wrong they got it just a few decades ago. Every generation the advice on which way to put your kid to sleep flip flops. It would be shamefully foolish to disregard all the incredible advances and technologies that modern medicine offers. It would be equally shamefully foolish to think it’s not still deeply flawed.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      This is true across more domains than medicine - especially in IT, the absolute assurance that those idiots 5 years ago were brain dead but now we’ve solved all the things.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  It strikes me as unfortunate that for a lot of things like home repairs/renovations its pretty normal to get 3+ different opinions/bids.. but for our health its usually your regular doctor, and at most a 2nd opinion in some cases. We'll make life changing decisions based on the opinion/advice of 1 individual, while shopping around on a home project or car repair that's +/- $5k. It seems again like a combination of shortage of medical workers and the indirect nature of medical payment. If I knew up front that walking in and getting 3 medical opinions would cost me X, and I didn't need any pre-approval from insurance, or risk denials.. I'd just go do it more. But the system is so opaque that I don't know I can get those answers readily, or believe the numbers are real and won't result in random bills later. Further, the next step after figuring out the cost of getting options would then e getting a quote for the actual resulting medical care recommends is opaque due to differing payment %s & co-pays by procedure, etc.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    My go-to question isn’t “should I do X” but more like “would you do X if this was you” - with good providers it gets closer to the heart of the matter.
  - pathartl 3y ago
    Something your comment overlooked is the overall availability and the required timeline for something health related is usually quite different than home maintenance or car troubles. I had a really bad sprain about two years ago to the point where my partner had to help me on and off the toilet. Eventually I took off work, went to urgent care, and paid $200 for them to basically say "well it's not broken, we could do an MRI otherwise we don't know what you want us to do". Booking an appointment with a GP would have taken around a month. They won't be able to do anything long term but will recommend a physical therapist. All said and done it's probably a $5-10k ordeal and weeks until I could actually see any progress, plus work time missed. Big surprise, I didn't actually end up going to see a doctor. Recovery sucked and some movements still aren't quite right.
    - tyrfing 3y ago
      In an ideal world, what would you say should have happened?
Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago
> I always point out to my wife that an expert with a financial benefit in the advice they are giving you is potentially more dangerous than an amateur. Indeed. In my country we have a public healthcare system. I also have private insurance, which I use sometimes because you can get consultations and tests much faster; but I wouldn't do anything invasive with the private insurance before getting an opinion from a public doctor first. The incentives aren't well aligned in private healthcare. For me, the combo (trust diganoses from the public system more, but use private when convenient) seems to work well. Public healthcare doesn't cover dentists, though, and to be honest, from other people's experience, I don't trust them much. I haven't visited one in over 20 years, and so far I haven't experienced pain or any other annoying symptoms other than some slight gum bleeding once per year or so which seems to resolve by itself by brushing and flossing more thoroughly than normal for a few days. I know it's risky and this may come to bite me later. Fingers crossed.

Waterluvian 3y ago

I think the “do your own research” label conflates two categories: people who are shopping for a comforting answer, and people who want to be informed and make conscious decisions. I don’t have to be a dental expert to know that something isn’t adding up and to seek a second opinion.

hunson_abadeer 3y ago
I think it's easy to come up with such delineation after the fact, but OP was looking for a more comforting answer. By the sound of it, they just didn't like the implications of the initial diagnosis. It wasn't about facts not adding up. The reality is that modern medicine is absolutely amazing, but there are also many interventions backed by shoddy science or no science at all. Sometimes, "doing your own research" exposes such lapses. Sometimes, it sends you off the deep end and you end up chasing ghosts. To allow the former, you need to tolerate some of the latter. And yeah, sometimes the shoddy science involves interventions so basic and so common that you'd think they're sorted out. Consider that Europe and the US take wildly divergent views on topics such as wisdom teeth, colonoscopies, or the value of flu vaccines. "Science literacy" doesn't shield you from being wrong. Maybe it helps, but there's no shortage of Nobel laureates who believe in conspiracy theories or promote dubious medical treatments. Talking about "science literacy" is usually just how geeks convince themselves that their beliefs can't be wrong.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  It’s funny how every generation of modern medicine acts like this time they know 100% what the correct answers are while we all scoff at how wrong they got it just a few decades ago. Every generation the advice on which way to put your kid to sleep flip flops. It would be shamefully foolish to disregard all the incredible advances and technologies that modern medicine offers. It would be equally shamefully foolish to think it’s not still deeply flawed.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    This is true across more domains than medicine - especially in IT, the absolute assurance that those idiots 5 years ago were brain dead but now we’ve solved all the things.
steveBK123 3y ago
It strikes me as unfortunate that for a lot of things like home repairs/renovations its pretty normal to get 3+ different opinions/bids.. but for our health its usually your regular doctor, and at most a 2nd opinion in some cases. We'll make life changing decisions based on the opinion/advice of 1 individual, while shopping around on a home project or car repair that's +/- $5k. It seems again like a combination of shortage of medical workers and the indirect nature of medical payment. If I knew up front that walking in and getting 3 medical opinions would cost me X, and I didn't need any pre-approval from insurance, or risk denials.. I'd just go do it more. But the system is so opaque that I don't know I can get those answers readily, or believe the numbers are real and won't result in random bills later. Further, the next step after figuring out the cost of getting options would then e getting a quote for the actual resulting medical care recommends is opaque due to differing payment %s & co-pays by procedure, etc.
- bombcar 3y ago
  My go-to question isn’t “should I do X” but more like “would you do X if this was you” - with good providers it gets closer to the heart of the matter.
- pathartl 3y ago
  Something your comment overlooked is the overall availability and the required timeline for something health related is usually quite different than home maintenance or car troubles. I had a really bad sprain about two years ago to the point where my partner had to help me on and off the toilet. Eventually I took off work, went to urgent care, and paid $200 for them to basically say "well it's not broken, we could do an MRI otherwise we don't know what you want us to do". Booking an appointment with a GP would have taken around a month. They won't be able to do anything long term but will recommend a physical therapist. All said and done it's probably a $5-10k ordeal and weeks until I could actually see any progress, plus work time missed. Big surprise, I didn't actually end up going to see a doctor. Recovery sucked and some movements still aren't quite right.
  - tyrfing 3y ago
    In an ideal world, what would you say should have happened?

Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago

> I always point out to my wife that an expert with a financial benefit in the advice they are giving you is potentially more dangerous than an amateur. Indeed. In my country we have a public healthcare system. I also have private insurance, which I use sometimes because you can get consultations and tests much faster; but I wouldn't do anything invasive with the private insurance before getting an opinion from a public doctor first. The incentives aren't well aligned in private healthcare. For me, the combo (trust diganoses from the public system more, but use private when convenient) seems to work well. Public healthcare doesn't cover dentists, though, and to be honest, from other people's experience, I don't trust them much. I haven't visited one in over 20 years, and so far I haven't experienced pain or any other annoying symptoms other than some slight gum bleeding once per year or so which seems to resolve by itself by brushing and flossing more thoroughly than normal for a few days. I know it's risky and this may come to bite me later. Fingers crossed.