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I have yet to see anything indicate remote work makes knowledge workers more productive. I prefer hybrid word, but exclusively because of the benefits outside o

by rcme 3y ago

I have yet to see anything indicate remote work makes knowledge workers more productive. I prefer hybrid word, but exclusively because of the benefits outside of work. Anecdotally, I’m probably around 80% as productive at home compared to at the office.

thefurdrake 3y ago
Anecdotally, I’m probably around 150% as productive at home compared to at the office. How's that for a reverse card? Seriously, I can't stand hearing other people talk. I can't stand hearing their keyboards, or their mice clicking, I can't stand to hear people walking around, I don't want them to be able to talk to me abruptly. Work gets done faster when I'm allowed to focus in my own controlled environment.
- rcme 3y ago
  I did mention my experience was anecdotal. This is a debate that can easily be settled with hard data. https://fortune.com/2023/07/06/remote-workers-less-productive-wfh-research/ https://fortune.com/2023/07/06/remote-workers-less-productiv... For what it’s worth, I agree with all of your office complaints. Yet, personally, I’m still more productive at the office. I liken this to working out at the gym alone vs. with a personal trainer. Working out alone is like working from home. No one is watching you to keep you accountable. Feeling sleepy? Take a nap! Whereas at work you have to appear productive all the time, similar to how it’s hard to slack off when working out with a trainer. And the easiest way to appear productive is just to be productive.
  - thefurdrake 3y ago
    I think a lot of it is going to be both the person and their environment. I have a separate office workspace, and have built up a fair bit of compartmentalization at home. I'm also very frenetic about focusing (or not), so the ability to work for 10min and then be distracted for another 10min is great for me. That might sound like I'm less productive, but ... my work output is higher than my coworkers and is generally completed earlier. I can realistically see it being a net loss, because I think a lot of workers aren't in tune with how their minds work relative to focusing on a tast, and a structured environment is perfect for dealing with that.
  - somsak2 3y ago
    Looking at the paper, their "10 to 20%" figure is based off of three studies, one for call center employees, one for Indian data-entry workers, and one for Indian IT professionals. The one closest to most of HN's audience is the IT professionals case, and even in that one they note "measured performance among these workers remained constant while remote." In addition, they only mention how "productivity" is being assessed for the call center case (call volumes), not the other two. Personally, I wouldn't really call this "hard data." It's also interesting that the same authors previously found the opposite effect -- https://wfhresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Barrero-AEA-NABE-Jan22.pdf https://wfhresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Barrero-A...
  - LeBit 3y ago
    If you need someone to physically check on you to keep you accountable, you have a problem and should definitely work at the office. Don't poison the lives of the ethical workers that are productive from home.
dudul 3y ago
Ok, and isn't it worth losing 20% of productivity for something that may improve people's quality of life? This whole productivity thing is so dumb.
- rcme 3y ago
  I agree, but American knowledge workers have somehow been convinced that the best path forward is to remain ununionized, at-will employees, which means the desires of the workers are always superseded by the desires of capital. In the capital class’ eyes, productivity is more important than worker quality of life.
  - RestlessMind 3y ago
    Looking at the number of SV colleagues from union friendly first world countries, I am pretty sure US tech sector has something going right.
    - rcme 3y ago
      How many were laid off?
      - RestlessMind 3y ago
        Some. Why?
RestlessMind 3y ago
I am not sure why you are being downvoted. I haven't seen hard data neither. Only some anecdotes from a loud minority.
- LeBit 3y ago
  Amusingly, I keep hearing from a loud minority that return to office is required because it will magically enhance productivity. They never provide numbers.
  - RestlessMind 3y ago
    Well, that depends on your null hypothesis. Most of the decision makers in corporate America know what in-office environment is, they have risen through it. So they don't need any more data about it. Remote work is a new paradigm which needs heavy investment in rewiring the culture of work. Obviously, the burden of proof is on remote work to prove it's utility.
somsak2 3y ago
Similarly, I have yet to see anything that indicates hybrid or in-person work makes knowledge workers more productive.
LeBit 3y ago
I live in Québec, Canada. I clearly remember Sonia Lebel, a minister of the provincial government, explaining WFH worked and that the public workers were more productive in that environment. Here is an article where she is quoted saying WFH employees were at their productivity peek: https://www.journaldequebec.com/2020/08/26/teletravail-des-economies-de-18-m-en-six-semaines-pour-le-gouvernement-1 https://www.journaldequebec.com/2020/08/26/teletravail-des-e...

by rcme 3y ago

thefurdrake 3y ago

Anecdotally, I’m probably around 150% as productive at home compared to at the office. How's that for a reverse card? Seriously, I can't stand hearing other people talk. I can't stand hearing their keyboards, or their mice clicking, I can't stand to hear people walking around, I don't want them to be able to talk to me abruptly. Work gets done faster when I'm allowed to focus in my own controlled environment.

rcme 3y ago
I did mention my experience was anecdotal. This is a debate that can easily be settled with hard data. https://fortune.com/2023/07/06/remote-workers-less-productive-wfh-research/ https://fortune.com/2023/07/06/remote-workers-less-productiv... For what it’s worth, I agree with all of your office complaints. Yet, personally, I’m still more productive at the office. I liken this to working out at the gym alone vs. with a personal trainer. Working out alone is like working from home. No one is watching you to keep you accountable. Feeling sleepy? Take a nap! Whereas at work you have to appear productive all the time, similar to how it’s hard to slack off when working out with a trainer. And the easiest way to appear productive is just to be productive.
- thefurdrake 3y ago
  I think a lot of it is going to be both the person and their environment. I have a separate office workspace, and have built up a fair bit of compartmentalization at home. I'm also very frenetic about focusing (or not), so the ability to work for 10min and then be distracted for another 10min is great for me. That might sound like I'm less productive, but ... my work output is higher than my coworkers and is generally completed earlier. I can realistically see it being a net loss, because I think a lot of workers aren't in tune with how their minds work relative to focusing on a tast, and a structured environment is perfect for dealing with that.
- somsak2 3y ago
  Looking at the paper, their "10 to 20%" figure is based off of three studies, one for call center employees, one for Indian data-entry workers, and one for Indian IT professionals. The one closest to most of HN's audience is the IT professionals case, and even in that one they note "measured performance among these workers remained constant while remote." In addition, they only mention how "productivity" is being assessed for the call center case (call volumes), not the other two. Personally, I wouldn't really call this "hard data." It's also interesting that the same authors previously found the opposite effect -- https://wfhresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Barrero-AEA-NABE-Jan22.pdf https://wfhresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Barrero-A...
- LeBit 3y ago
  If you need someone to physically check on you to keep you accountable, you have a problem and should definitely work at the office. Don't poison the lives of the ethical workers that are productive from home.

dudul 3y ago

Ok, and isn't it worth losing 20% of productivity for something that may improve people's quality of life? This whole productivity thing is so dumb.

rcme 3y ago
I agree, but American knowledge workers have somehow been convinced that the best path forward is to remain ununionized, at-will employees, which means the desires of the workers are always superseded by the desires of capital. In the capital class’ eyes, productivity is more important than worker quality of life.
- RestlessMind 3y ago
  Looking at the number of SV colleagues from union friendly first world countries, I am pretty sure US tech sector has something going right.
  - rcme 3y ago
    How many were laid off?
    - RestlessMind 3y ago
      Some. Why?

RestlessMind 3y ago

I am not sure why you are being downvoted. I haven't seen hard data neither. Only some anecdotes from a loud minority.

LeBit 3y ago
Amusingly, I keep hearing from a loud minority that return to office is required because it will magically enhance productivity. They never provide numbers.
- RestlessMind 3y ago
  Well, that depends on your null hypothesis. Most of the decision makers in corporate America know what in-office environment is, they have risen through it. So they don't need any more data about it. Remote work is a new paradigm which needs heavy investment in rewiring the culture of work. Obviously, the burden of proof is on remote work to prove it's utility.

somsak2 3y ago

Similarly, I have yet to see anything that indicates hybrid or in-person work makes knowledge workers more productive.

LeBit 3y ago

I live in Québec, Canada. I clearly remember Sonia Lebel, a minister of the provincial government, explaining WFH worked and that the public workers were more productive in that environment. Here is an article where she is quoted saying WFH employees were at their productivity peek: https://www.journaldequebec.com/2020/08/26/teletravail-des-economies-de-18-m-en-six-semaines-pour-le-gouvernement-1 https://www.journaldequebec.com/2020/08/26/teletravail-des-e...