4 ms·

Unveiling Ravenchord: A Radical Piano Redesign from Dan Harden

17 points by cainxinth 3y ago

jacquesm 3y ago
Oh, very nice. If you are into this kind of thing do check out Klavins: https://klavins-pianos.com/projects/ https://klavins-pianos.com/projects/ (and what it sounds like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R49faHgWW9w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R49faHgWW9w ) That Ravenchord is something else though, what a look! Does it actually work?
- cainxinth 3y ago
  I love Nils Frahm. Will definitely check out your link. As for the Ravenchord, I believe it's just a concept at the moment.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    I suspected as much because I can think of a couple of action details that are going to be super hard with with geometry but if they can get it to work (or if they already have it working) then that would be a major engineering accomplishment. They talk about it as if it is working. The way I understand it is intended to be an electro-mechnical piano with an electronic keyboard. That removes the linkages at the price of no longer being a purely mechanical instrument, which I'm pretty sure isn't going to sit well with advanced pianists. I've found a video but it looks like a rendering to me and not someone actually playing it.
    - mjd 3y ago
      The page says it is electromechanical: > [The hammers etc.] sit on the center spine and are activated by solenoids, a proven technology even used on some Spirio Steinways. I don't know much about pianos but it struck me that they were looking at their shoes when they wrote that.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        The Spirio only does that during midi playback, normally it is a regular instrument (for some values of regular...).
    - gabereiser 3y ago
      The advanced pianists I know are the snobbiest of peoples when it comes to their instrument. A boogie woogie player wouldn’t care but a classical purist would have a heart attack and refuse to play it. I find it interesting and if they can reproduce the feel (as some higher end clavinovas have) then they might have something. The design is definitely striking. The tone and action is what is going to make it last.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        I have access to a whole bunch of instruments, An older grand, a nice upright and a good quality digital. The latter is the one that gets the most time by far, it's just so much more convenient.
        gabereiser 3y ago
        Same, a fully weighted digital like a clavinova is just heaven. Put on the headphones and play away without disturbing Mrs. Sally Verner in Apt 2F.
- tantalor 3y ago
  Why does the recording suck so much? Why would they post that? It's embarrassing!
lucas_codes 3y ago
Love the idea and the design - but if the hammer isn't mechanically coupled to the keys, it's hard to imagine it will have proper control and feedback from the touch. I'm sure the designer is fully aware of this, so it's probably intended for it's niche
- pdonis 3y ago
  > if the hammer isn't mechanically coupled to the keys, it's hard to imagine it will have proper control and feedback from the touch Electronic keyboards have weighted keys and similar tactile feedback to regular acoustic pianos, so this is a solved problem.
  - o11c 3y ago
    Electronic keyboards are advertised as if they have tactile feedback. In reality, it's a very hard problem and we shouldn't be surprised that consumer-grade ones don't even get close. (of course, this advertisement isn't really for consumer grade ...)
  - CoolestBeans 3y ago
    Man there are digital pianos that have an entire keyboard and hammer assembly right out of a acoustic piano but the hammers strike a force sensor instead of strings. Definitely more on the ridiculous side of things but the fact there's a market for it means people do really care for the authentic tactile feeling of a piano especially if that's what they've trained on for decades.
    - ezst 3y ago
      Not having an opinion on the matter, I just wanted to point out that there is also a market out there for people pretending to hear the difference between optical audio cables and gold-plated optical audio cables… I wouldn't be surprised if companies were willing to over-engineer something, anything just to sell at a higher price :)
  - lucas_codes 3y ago
yongjik 3y ago
> The design plays with the confines of a traditional acoustic frame at 84” long, 18” deep, and sitting at around 500 pounds. So, this thing doesn't actually exist, does it? That's a lot of bold and assertive language for something that's at a designer's prototype stage.
fernly 3y ago
So it doesn't exist? At least, if it did exist, one would think there would be some video. Certainly searching for "ravenchord" on YT nets a lot of unrelated things, including a piano simulator app named "Raven Chord".

17 points by cainxinth 3y ago

Oh, very nice. If you are into this kind of thing do check out Klavins: https://klavins-pianos.com/projects/ https://klavins-pianos.com/projects/ (and what it sounds like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R49faHgWW9w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R49faHgWW9w ) That Ravenchord is something else though, what a look! Does it actually work?

cainxinth 3y ago
I love Nils Frahm. Will definitely check out your link. As for the Ravenchord, I believe it's just a concept at the moment.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  I suspected as much because I can think of a couple of action details that are going to be super hard with with geometry but if they can get it to work (or if they already have it working) then that would be a major engineering accomplishment. They talk about it as if it is working. The way I understand it is intended to be an electro-mechnical piano with an electronic keyboard. That removes the linkages at the price of no longer being a purely mechanical instrument, which I'm pretty sure isn't going to sit well with advanced pianists. I've found a video but it looks like a rendering to me and not someone actually playing it.
  - mjd 3y ago
    The page says it is electromechanical: > [The hammers etc.] sit on the center spine and are activated by solenoids, a proven technology even used on some Spirio Steinways. I don't know much about pianos but it struck me that they were looking at their shoes when they wrote that.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      The Spirio only does that during midi playback, normally it is a regular instrument (for some values of regular...).
  - gabereiser 3y ago
    The advanced pianists I know are the snobbiest of peoples when it comes to their instrument. A boogie woogie player wouldn’t care but a classical purist would have a heart attack and refuse to play it. I find it interesting and if they can reproduce the feel (as some higher end clavinovas have) then they might have something. The design is definitely striking. The tone and action is what is going to make it last.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      I have access to a whole bunch of instruments, An older grand, a nice upright and a good quality digital. The latter is the one that gets the most time by far, it's just so much more convenient.
      - gabereiser 3y ago
        Same, a fully weighted digital like a clavinova is just heaven. Put on the headphones and play away without disturbing Mrs. Sally Verner in Apt 2F.
tantalor 3y ago
Why does the recording suck so much? Why would they post that? It's embarrassing!

lucas_codes 3y ago

Love the idea and the design - but if the hammer isn't mechanically coupled to the keys, it's hard to imagine it will have proper control and feedback from the touch. I'm sure the designer is fully aware of this, so it's probably intended for it's niche

pdonis 3y ago
> if the hammer isn't mechanically coupled to the keys, it's hard to imagine it will have proper control and feedback from the touch Electronic keyboards have weighted keys and similar tactile feedback to regular acoustic pianos, so this is a solved problem.
- o11c 3y ago
  Electronic keyboards are advertised as if they have tactile feedback. In reality, it's a very hard problem and we shouldn't be surprised that consumer-grade ones don't even get close. (of course, this advertisement isn't really for consumer grade ...)
- CoolestBeans 3y ago
  Man there are digital pianos that have an entire keyboard and hammer assembly right out of a acoustic piano but the hammers strike a force sensor instead of strings. Definitely more on the ridiculous side of things but the fact there's a market for it means people do really care for the authentic tactile feeling of a piano especially if that's what they've trained on for decades.
  - ezst 3y ago
    Not having an opinion on the matter, I just wanted to point out that there is also a market out there for people pretending to hear the difference between optical audio cables and gold-plated optical audio cables… I wouldn't be surprised if companies were willing to over-engineer something, anything just to sell at a higher price :)
- lucas_codes 3y ago

yongjik 3y ago

> The design plays with the confines of a traditional acoustic frame at 84” long, 18” deep, and sitting at around 500 pounds. So, this thing doesn't actually exist, does it? That's a lot of bold and assertive language for something that's at a designer's prototype stage.

fernly 3y ago

So it doesn't exist? At least, if it did exist, one would think there would be some video. Certainly searching for "ravenchord" on YT nets a lot of unrelated things, including a piano simulator app named "Raven Chord".