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But it is saying that your customer content may be used for training AI, in 10.4: > 10.4 Customer License Grant. You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a per

by jsnell 3y ago

But it is saying that your customer content may be used for training AI, in 10.4: > 10.4 Customer License Grant. You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works, and process Customer Content and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content: (i) as may be necessary for Zoom to provide the Services to you, including to support the Services; (ii) for the purpose of product and service development, marketing, analytics, quality assurance, machine learning, artificial intelligence, [...]

j45 3y ago
Wow. I hope the op just didn’t read that far.
- TheRealPomax 3y ago
  hitting "search" in your browser and typing "artificial intelligence" doesn't really require reading the whole thing ;)
  - j45 3y ago
    Seemed odd that there was so much details refuting it on the points prior to 10.4 Maybe its just a coincidence. Or maybe it’s two angles perfectly coinciding.
jxf 3y ago
You're right. I retracted the comment and edited to reflect this point.
kortex 3y ago
> You agree to grant and hereby grant I get that legalese is like human-interpretable pseudocode, but like, is there really no better way to word this? How can you grant without agreeing to grant? > import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works Wow this cover of Daft Punk - Technologic sucks. I, for one, do not welcome our dystopian overlords, but am at a loss to what I can do about it. I try to use Jitsi or anything not-zoom whenever possible, but it's rarely my pick.
- kitchi 3y ago
  > How can you grant without agreeing to grant? I think it's more that they're being explicit about the logical AND in that sentence. You agree to grant, AND grant them the permission. I think it's a technicality about it being a "user agreement" so they probably have to use the word agree for certain clauses.
- rolph 3y ago
  set yourself up with a couple of vices [coffee, smokes] and have look here, for things you can do: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37022623 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37022623 [a number of links regarding how to play with bots and bork training by"malforming" your inputs]
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  And after that litany of very specific things, "and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content." Couldn't the whole paragraph just have been that phrase?
  - psunavy03 3y ago
    Not a lawyer, but generally when whole paragraphs aren't "that phrase" it's because people read loopholes into "that phrase."
- angled 3y ago
  To whom at Zoom do we send the eDiscovery (and litigation hold) requests? My goodness.
- dctoedt 3y ago
  >> You agree to grant and hereby grant "Hereby grant" means the grant is (supposedly) immediately effective even for future-arising rights — and thus would take precedence (again, supposedly) over an agreement to grant the same rights in the future. [0] (In the late oughts, this principle resulted in the biotech company Roche Molecular becoming a part-owner of a Stanford patent, because a Stanford researcher signed a "visitor NDA" with Roche that included present-assignment language, whereas the researcher's previous agreement with Stanford included only future-assignment language. The Stanford-Roche lawsuit on that subject went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.) [0] https://toedtclassnotes.site44.com/Notes-on-Contract-Drafting-2021-08-21.html#ip-own-prsnt-future https://toedtclassnotes.site44.com/Notes-on-Contract-Draftin...

by jsnell 3y ago

j45 3y ago

Wow. I hope the op just didn’t read that far.

TheRealPomax 3y ago
hitting "search" in your browser and typing "artificial intelligence" doesn't really require reading the whole thing ;)
- j45 3y ago
  Seemed odd that there was so much details refuting it on the points prior to 10.4 Maybe its just a coincidence. Or maybe it’s two angles perfectly coinciding.

jxf 3y ago

You're right. I retracted the comment and edited to reflect this point.

kortex 3y ago

> You agree to grant and hereby grant I get that legalese is like human-interpretable pseudocode, but like, is there really no better way to word this? How can you grant without agreeing to grant? > import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works Wow this cover of Daft Punk - Technologic sucks. I, for one, do not welcome our dystopian overlords, but am at a loss to what I can do about it. I try to use Jitsi or anything not-zoom whenever possible, but it's rarely my pick.

kitchi 3y ago
> How can you grant without agreeing to grant? I think it's more that they're being explicit about the logical AND in that sentence. You agree to grant, AND grant them the permission. I think it's a technicality about it being a "user agreement" so they probably have to use the word agree for certain clauses.
rolph 3y ago
set yourself up with a couple of vices [coffee, smokes] and have look here, for things you can do: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37022623 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37022623 [a number of links regarding how to play with bots and bork training by"malforming" your inputs]
SoftTalker 3y ago
And after that litany of very specific things, "and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content." Couldn't the whole paragraph just have been that phrase?
- psunavy03 3y ago
  Not a lawyer, but generally when whole paragraphs aren't "that phrase" it's because people read loopholes into "that phrase."
angled 3y ago
To whom at Zoom do we send the eDiscovery (and litigation hold) requests? My goodness.
dctoedt 3y ago
>> You agree to grant and hereby grant "Hereby grant" means the grant is (supposedly) immediately effective even for future-arising rights — and thus would take precedence (again, supposedly) over an agreement to grant the same rights in the future. [0] (In the late oughts, this principle resulted in the biotech company Roche Molecular becoming a part-owner of a Stanford patent, because a Stanford researcher signed a "visitor NDA" with Roche that included present-assignment language, whereas the researcher's previous agreement with Stanford included only future-assignment language. The Stanford-Roche lawsuit on that subject went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.) [0] https://toedtclassnotes.site44.com/Notes-on-Contract-Drafting-2021-08-21.html#ip-own-prsnt-future https://toedtclassnotes.site44.com/Notes-on-Contract-Draftin...