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Shitty workplaces will be shitty workplaces. You can have traditional offices where work-hours are respected, and you can have traditional offices where everyon

Shitty workplaces will be shitty workplaces. You can have traditional offices where work-hours are respected, and you can have traditional offices where everyone is "forced" into doing crunches and staying until midnight. I think one thing people always misunderstand it: WFH doesn't need to mean separating work and home is impossible. Separate room that you can close if you have a house. Or going to a co-working space. Or in my case: Renting a 2-people office with a colleague.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago
Well, my anecdata is that this got much worse at my company after COVID made work-from-home a thing. There used to be no expectation that you would work after leaving the office; people would stay late sometimes (not that late), but once you left for the day, that was pretty much it. Some of my coworkers literally didn't own a computer at home. Some of it was on the workers' end (including me). It just becomes so easy when you're in the same physical space at all times.
- danaris 3y ago
  That falls 100% into "shitty workplaces being shitty workplaces". "My workplace used WFH as an excuse to get more labor out of us outside work hours" is not evidence that WFH is inherently going to lead to that. It's just evidence that your workplace is shitty. It is one anecdote, not actual data that can be used to describe trends.
  - c0nfused 3y ago
    I also think that it's important as a remote worker to set boundaries and communicate them. It's really hard to know when you are working from the other side of the monitor. So, you have to be like: "Okay, it's 4:30pm, I'll take a look at this in the morning" and then leave like you normally would.
    - vladvasiliu 3y ago
      This. I'm fortunate to work in a place where working hours are respected and when you're off, you're off. Before COVID hit, I got into the habit of showing up to work and leaving a good hour and a half earlier than everybody else, so I could avoid being compressed in the metro. No one actually cared, and pretty much everyone got the memo that I'm not available after 5 PM, so no one expected any reply from me after that hour. When COVID hit, and we all switched to WFH, this continued. At one point, we were only working part-time, but were free to work as we liked. Some did a few full days and took the others off, others worked every day, but fewer hours. This worked fine, too, because there was flexibility on both ends. Need to set up a meeting at a time when Jim isn't usually working? See if you can move it earlier / later. Not possible? Jim'll see if he can work later / earlier and adjust some other day. I think the lesson is that what counts is both sides trying to work together. Of course, if either party tries to abuse the situation, like slacking off day in day out, or always setting up meetings outside regular hours, this falls through because the good will is lost. I work operations, so I sometimes had to drive to a datacenter at five in the morning to replace a switch or whatever. But I also sometimes could clock out at 3 PM to attend to some personal matter because it allowed me to not have to waste time waiting in line or some such, without having to take the afternoon off.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  My anecdata is that it got a lot better. I probably worked like ten hours a week less on average during the whole 2020-2022 pandemic period. I even have weird nostalgia for the two months that we didn't have daycare at the beginning, which I remember thinking was really awful at the time, but when I look back now I remember spending a lot of large chunks of afternoons playing with my daughter when I would have previously been at my office. I was certainly a less effective employee though!

Wowfunhappy 3y ago

Well, my anecdata is that this got much worse at my company after COVID made work-from-home a thing. There used to be no expectation that you would work after leaving the office; people would stay late sometimes (not that late), but once you left for the day, that was pretty much it. Some of my coworkers literally didn't own a computer at home. Some of it was on the workers' end (including me). It just becomes so easy when you're in the same physical space at all times.

danaris 3y ago
That falls 100% into "shitty workplaces being shitty workplaces". "My workplace used WFH as an excuse to get more labor out of us outside work hours" is not evidence that WFH is inherently going to lead to that. It's just evidence that your workplace is shitty. It is one anecdote, not actual data that can be used to describe trends.
- c0nfused 3y ago
  I also think that it's important as a remote worker to set boundaries and communicate them. It's really hard to know when you are working from the other side of the monitor. So, you have to be like: "Okay, it's 4:30pm, I'll take a look at this in the morning" and then leave like you normally would.
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    This. I'm fortunate to work in a place where working hours are respected and when you're off, you're off. Before COVID hit, I got into the habit of showing up to work and leaving a good hour and a half earlier than everybody else, so I could avoid being compressed in the metro. No one actually cared, and pretty much everyone got the memo that I'm not available after 5 PM, so no one expected any reply from me after that hour. When COVID hit, and we all switched to WFH, this continued. At one point, we were only working part-time, but were free to work as we liked. Some did a few full days and took the others off, others worked every day, but fewer hours. This worked fine, too, because there was flexibility on both ends. Need to set up a meeting at a time when Jim isn't usually working? See if you can move it earlier / later. Not possible? Jim'll see if he can work later / earlier and adjust some other day. I think the lesson is that what counts is both sides trying to work together. Of course, if either party tries to abuse the situation, like slacking off day in day out, or always setting up meetings outside regular hours, this falls through because the good will is lost. I work operations, so I sometimes had to drive to a datacenter at five in the morning to replace a switch or whatever. But I also sometimes could clock out at 3 PM to attend to some personal matter because it allowed me to not have to waste time waiting in line or some such, without having to take the afternoon off.
sanderjd 3y ago
My anecdata is that it got a lot better. I probably worked like ten hours a week less on average during the whole 2020-2022 pandemic period. I even have weird nostalgia for the two months that we didn't have daycare at the beginning, which I remember thinking was really awful at the time, but when I look back now I remember spending a lot of large chunks of afternoons playing with my daughter when I would have previously been at my office. I was certainly a less effective employee though!