6 ms·

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50986683 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50986683 Confessions of a slaughterhouse worker https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/285

by myshpa 3y ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50986683 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50986683 Confessions of a slaughterhouse worker https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28506017/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28506017/ Prevalence of serious psychological distress among slaughterhouse workers at a United States beef packing plant https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4841092/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4841092/ Slaughtering for a living: A hermeneutic phenomenological perspective on the well-being of slaughterhouse employees https://hazlitt.net/blog/monstrous-cruelty-just-world https://hazlitt.net/blog/monstrous-cruelty-just-world The Monstrous Cruelty of a Just World https://faunalytics.org/differing-empathy-in-vegetarians-vegans-and-omnivores/ https://faunalytics.org/differing-empathy-in-vegetarians-veg... Differing Empathy in Vegetarians, Vegans, and Omnivores > it's easy to see how Germans could have no problem killing Jews in concentration camps if they were similar personalities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

benj111 3y ago
The last study is interesting. I'm somewhat surprised by the increased empathy to humans though. As a meat eater the ethics of meat eating is more a question of respect for the animal, I don't lack empathy for humans. Further, my observation of pet owners, their empathy for pets seems to reduce their empathy for fellow humans.
- hairofadog 3y ago
  > my observation of pet owners, their empathy for pets seems to reduce their empathy for fellow humans. Hmm, I haven’t seen that correlation, but it’s worth noting that there are all sorts of people who keep pets for all sorts of different reasons, so I don’t doubt it’s true for some.
  - kaashif 3y ago
    A lot of people would rather save their pet than an unspecified stranger from a sinking ship: https://today.yougov.com/topics/society/articles-reports/2023/07/10/pets-morality-americans-attached-dogs-cats-poll https://today.yougov.com/topics/society/articles-reports/202... That makes sense. But becoming a pet owner also makes you more likely to want to save an unspecified dog over a unspecified person.
    - hairofadog 3y ago
      Regarding your first point, that’s not a pet owner thing but a family thing. Most people would save their own before helping a stranger. > becoming a pet owner also makes you more likely to want to save an unspecified dog over a unspecified person From the article: > In the scenarios involving an unspecified dog, only around 20% of American pet owners say they would choose to save the dog over the person or people My reading of that data is different from yours. Does a 20% chance of something sound more likely or less likely?
      - benj111 3y ago
        >Regarding your first point, that’s not a pet owner thing but a family thing. 'Family' takes many different forms though (nation, ethnicity, species, etc) I'm not saying it's right or wrong but I would include a human stranger in my 'family' over a known pet.
      - fatfingerd 3y ago
        > My reading of that data is different from yours. Does a 20% chance of something sound more likely or less likely? More likely than a non pet-owner (10%).
- myshpa 3y ago
  > As a meat eater ... I don't lack empathy for humans. As a meat eater ... you cannot yet know what you lack/you'd gain ;) > pet owners, their empathy for pets seems to reduce their empathy for fellow humans It's funny that when someone adopts a rabbit, pig, or chicken as a pet, they often (based on anecdotes) stop eating that specific type of meat, but they don't typically stop eating other animals. Something changes when people decide to stop eating meat.
  - benj111 3y ago
    >As a meat eater ... you cannot yet know what you lack/you'd gain ;) No, I'd even grant that my pov could even be a sign of lowered empathy, but as my second part was meant to indicate. On the other hand developing an empathy for other animals can lead to lowered empathy for the 'murderers' of those animals. If you empathise with foos and bars, and foos are harming bars, surely that would impact your empathy for foos.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      I believe empathy isn't zero-sum. Feeling for animals doesn't mean their empathy for humans diminishes. Btw, most vegans used to be meat eaters previously. As my SO says: "they (carnists) just don't know ... yet".
  - veggieburrito 3y ago
    It’d be interesting to read more about the psychology of “when people decide to stop eating meat”. Conversely, I’ve talked with individuals who were raised culturally vegetarian who started eating meat as an adult. Interesting topics all around.
trextrex 3y ago
The Stanford prison experiment was fraudulent: https://www.vox.com/2018/6/13/17449118/stanford-prison-experiment-fraud-psychology-replication https://www.vox.com/2018/6/13/17449118/stanford-prison-exper...

by myshpa 3y ago

benj111 3y ago

The last study is interesting. I'm somewhat surprised by the increased empathy to humans though. As a meat eater the ethics of meat eating is more a question of respect for the animal, I don't lack empathy for humans. Further, my observation of pet owners, their empathy for pets seems to reduce their empathy for fellow humans.

hairofadog 3y ago
> my observation of pet owners, their empathy for pets seems to reduce their empathy for fellow humans. Hmm, I haven’t seen that correlation, but it’s worth noting that there are all sorts of people who keep pets for all sorts of different reasons, so I don’t doubt it’s true for some.
- kaashif 3y ago
  A lot of people would rather save their pet than an unspecified stranger from a sinking ship: https://today.yougov.com/topics/society/articles-reports/2023/07/10/pets-morality-americans-attached-dogs-cats-poll https://today.yougov.com/topics/society/articles-reports/202... That makes sense. But becoming a pet owner also makes you more likely to want to save an unspecified dog over a unspecified person.
  - hairofadog 3y ago
    Regarding your first point, that’s not a pet owner thing but a family thing. Most people would save their own before helping a stranger. > becoming a pet owner also makes you more likely to want to save an unspecified dog over a unspecified person From the article: > In the scenarios involving an unspecified dog, only around 20% of American pet owners say they would choose to save the dog over the person or people My reading of that data is different from yours. Does a 20% chance of something sound more likely or less likely?
    - benj111 3y ago
      >Regarding your first point, that’s not a pet owner thing but a family thing. 'Family' takes many different forms though (nation, ethnicity, species, etc) I'm not saying it's right or wrong but I would include a human stranger in my 'family' over a known pet.
    - fatfingerd 3y ago
      > My reading of that data is different from yours. Does a 20% chance of something sound more likely or less likely? More likely than a non pet-owner (10%).
myshpa 3y ago
> As a meat eater ... I don't lack empathy for humans. As a meat eater ... you cannot yet know what you lack/you'd gain ;) > pet owners, their empathy for pets seems to reduce their empathy for fellow humans It's funny that when someone adopts a rabbit, pig, or chicken as a pet, they often (based on anecdotes) stop eating that specific type of meat, but they don't typically stop eating other animals. Something changes when people decide to stop eating meat.
- benj111 3y ago
  >As a meat eater ... you cannot yet know what you lack/you'd gain ;) No, I'd even grant that my pov could even be a sign of lowered empathy, but as my second part was meant to indicate. On the other hand developing an empathy for other animals can lead to lowered empathy for the 'murderers' of those animals. If you empathise with foos and bars, and foos are harming bars, surely that would impact your empathy for foos.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    I believe empathy isn't zero-sum. Feeling for animals doesn't mean their empathy for humans diminishes. Btw, most vegans used to be meat eaters previously. As my SO says: "they (carnists) just don't know ... yet".
- veggieburrito 3y ago
  It’d be interesting to read more about the psychology of “when people decide to stop eating meat”. Conversely, I’ve talked with individuals who were raised culturally vegetarian who started eating meat as an adult. Interesting topics all around.

trextrex 3y ago

The Stanford prison experiment was fraudulent: https://www.vox.com/2018/6/13/17449118/stanford-prison-experiment-fraud-psychology-replication https://www.vox.com/2018/6/13/17449118/stanford-prison-exper...