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There is no such thing as true digital ownership for things built on anyone else’s platform. If you want to truly own something you need to use open protocols -

There is no such thing as true digital ownership for things built on anyone else’s platform. If you want to truly own something you need to use open protocols - like websites and bespoke software. If you build on someone’s API, or rely on “owning” a Twitter account which you literally have zero right to and is at the whim of the platform’s owner, don’t be shocked when it’s taken from you. Of course, you can always use Bitcoin / Ethereum and the Ethereum Name Service which is true, legitimate digital ownership. But few on HN like that. There is a lot of cognitive dissonance when arguing that blockchain has literally zero use cases and then being angry when Twitter or Facebook or Google rugs you.

moralestapia 3y ago
What about domain names? I have a really nice .app site and fear this every time I renew it. (For those who don't know: .app is owned by Google)
- presson 3y ago
  This cannot happen with domains. If you were to drop the domain, they could potentially reserve it for themselves, but as long as you're not breaking laws and pay for renewals, the domain is yours.
  - moralestapia 3y ago
    I hope you're right! (I'm quite honored to get your first comment on this site after lurking for around 3 years and a half, lol)
    - presson 3y ago
      lololol the web as a distribution platform is very important to me! :-P
  - skinner927 3y ago
    Are there actually legal restrictions to this? Does anything prevent a registrar from increasing the domain renewal price from $12 to $12,000 which effectively prices out everyone?
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  https://eth.limo/ https://eth.limo/ is one attempt of several to map ENS domains to web addressable domains. Ideally all the major browsers will support ENS for domain-to-IP mapping and the issue is solved.
- rabbits_2002 3y ago
  Squarespace owns it now. Google is leaving the domain registrar business.
appplication 3y ago
> Of course, you can always use Bitcoin / Ethereum and the Ethereum Name Service which is true, legitimate digital ownership. Why is this legitimate digital ownership vs other forms? Bitcoin and ETH are stolen all the time, and it’s not recoverable, even if you can prove it rightfully belonged to you. People are wary of crypto because it’s controlled by a cabal of extraordinarily entrenched early adopters, many of whom established themselves on speculation, grift, and fraud. It’s no better than the centralized banking it purports to supplant, and worse in most measurable regards.
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  A lot of early people sold, it’s hard to buy and hold when you 10x. Then people in at $1 sell at $10, those buyers sell at $100, those at $1000, and so on. It takes deep, deep conviction to sit on 10000% gains and not sell. And those people are true believers in the tech, and IMO deserve their riches. Same as anyone who bought FB or AMZN or GOOG at IPO and held until now. As a separate issue, do the longer term holders pose a threat to the crypto ecosystem? You are so naïve - the traditional economic and banking system is the same! Except for centuries! Do I sound conspiratorial? Well, you said crypto has a “cabal”. Pot meet kettle. At least in crypto it’s open source, and the addresses and balances are public. A fundamentally more equitable system at its core.
  - appplication 3y ago
    I have no love for the banks. But crypto is open source in name only. The deflationary nature of it ensures that expansion of adoption is exclusively to the enrichment of current holders. It’s a glorified ponzi scheme, posturing behind sham principles of openness and inclusion.
    - monero-xmr 3y ago
      I feel like you are at an inflection point of understanding. The fiat economic system, which has been the global system since the gold standard went away, is a glorified Ponzi scheme! You are so close
hackernewds 3y ago
Replace "digital platform" with the Internet and it sounds like a terrible dystopia. Just because the policies existed doesn't make it right. What next? @POTUS is claimed by X and is put up for bidding to the highest bidder.
tracerbulletx 3y ago
That's true of literally everything and yet we have figured out in other spheres how to have fair dealings, and have things like leases, and insurance, and other fair ways of working together when dealing with things owned by other people. As people build businesses on these platforms it is completely necessary that standards and duties between these parties be formalized, predictable, and non-capricious.
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  No I have a constitutional right to the property I own, except in exceptional circumstances. Your Twitter handle is not land, nor a physical object in your house, and the laws we have won’t protect you if the contract says you can’t own it. Cryptocurrency is simply a different thing in terms of digital ownership. It’s not the same as other digital things.

moralestapia 3y ago

What about domain names? I have a really nice .app site and fear this every time I renew it. (For those who don't know: .app is owned by Google)

presson 3y ago
This cannot happen with domains. If you were to drop the domain, they could potentially reserve it for themselves, but as long as you're not breaking laws and pay for renewals, the domain is yours.
- moralestapia 3y ago
  I hope you're right! (I'm quite honored to get your first comment on this site after lurking for around 3 years and a half, lol)
  - presson 3y ago
    lololol the web as a distribution platform is very important to me! :-P
- skinner927 3y ago
  Are there actually legal restrictions to this? Does anything prevent a registrar from increasing the domain renewal price from $12 to $12,000 which effectively prices out everyone?
monero-xmr 3y ago
https://eth.limo/ https://eth.limo/ is one attempt of several to map ENS domains to web addressable domains. Ideally all the major browsers will support ENS for domain-to-IP mapping and the issue is solved.
rabbits_2002 3y ago
Squarespace owns it now. Google is leaving the domain registrar business.

appplication 3y ago

> Of course, you can always use Bitcoin / Ethereum and the Ethereum Name Service which is true, legitimate digital ownership. Why is this legitimate digital ownership vs other forms? Bitcoin and ETH are stolen all the time, and it’s not recoverable, even if you can prove it rightfully belonged to you. People are wary of crypto because it’s controlled by a cabal of extraordinarily entrenched early adopters, many of whom established themselves on speculation, grift, and fraud. It’s no better than the centralized banking it purports to supplant, and worse in most measurable regards.

monero-xmr 3y ago
A lot of early people sold, it’s hard to buy and hold when you 10x. Then people in at $1 sell at $10, those buyers sell at $100, those at $1000, and so on. It takes deep, deep conviction to sit on 10000% gains and not sell. And those people are true believers in the tech, and IMO deserve their riches. Same as anyone who bought FB or AMZN or GOOG at IPO and held until now. As a separate issue, do the longer term holders pose a threat to the crypto ecosystem? You are so naïve - the traditional economic and banking system is the same! Except for centuries! Do I sound conspiratorial? Well, you said crypto has a “cabal”. Pot meet kettle. At least in crypto it’s open source, and the addresses and balances are public. A fundamentally more equitable system at its core.
- appplication 3y ago
  I have no love for the banks. But crypto is open source in name only. The deflationary nature of it ensures that expansion of adoption is exclusively to the enrichment of current holders. It’s a glorified ponzi scheme, posturing behind sham principles of openness and inclusion.
  - monero-xmr 3y ago
    I feel like you are at an inflection point of understanding. The fiat economic system, which has been the global system since the gold standard went away, is a glorified Ponzi scheme! You are so close

hackernewds 3y ago

Replace "digital platform" with the Internet and it sounds like a terrible dystopia. Just because the policies existed doesn't make it right. What next? @POTUS is claimed by X and is put up for bidding to the highest bidder.

tracerbulletx 3y ago

That's true of literally everything and yet we have figured out in other spheres how to have fair dealings, and have things like leases, and insurance, and other fair ways of working together when dealing with things owned by other people. As people build businesses on these platforms it is completely necessary that standards and duties between these parties be formalized, predictable, and non-capricious.

monero-xmr 3y ago
No I have a constitutional right to the property I own, except in exceptional circumstances. Your Twitter handle is not land, nor a physical object in your house, and the laws we have won’t protect you if the contract says you can’t own it. Cryptocurrency is simply a different thing in terms of digital ownership. It’s not the same as other digital things.