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that’s so smart a good excuse to never build anything life is risk this sucks, no doubt but this snark is so unproductive

ovao 3y ago
It’s not a good excuse to not build anything, but quite a good excuse to not build on what others own in such a way that you’re entirely reliant on them. Yes, unless you’re self-hosting your product on a solar-powered server via community-owned networks, you’re going to be beholden to someone, and often that’s multiple parties. But that’s not the same as being completely beholden.
- threatofrain 3y ago
  Many businesses start with single points of failure. The goal is to get enough money to where this is not true, but they all start this way. Ultimately the goal is managing risk, and that often means not building out your own data center as the first thing you do.
  - ovao 3y ago
    This, more increasingly, doesn’t mean building out your own data center. Often this just means you can deploy services to multiple platforms without a dramatic or upending burden of effort. I don’t think startups should necessarily burn capital on federation, but startups can at least make engineering decisions and trade-offs to ensure a future livelihood not contingent on single points of failure. Unless you’re Apple or Google, you’ll have some single points of failure. But that’s not the same as the livelihood of what you’re setting out to do being reliant on a single vendor for over a decade.
  - rglullis 3y ago
    There is quite a lot between "building your own data center" and "building your tech stack in a way where you are not locked to one specific vendor".
rglullis 3y ago
> a good excuse to never build anything ... on closed platforms. Open and censorship-resistant protocols do not have have this risk, Free Software does not have this risk. So, yes, if in 2023 you are still building things on closed platforms despite all the cautionary tales, you deserve all the snark you'll get.
- LudwigNagasena 3y ago
  What are some open censorship-resistant protocols? Email?
  - klabb3 3y ago
    Http works fine. The risk of a revoked domain name is minuscule in comparison to “whenever we feel like it”.
nightski 3y ago
Maybe, if you only focus on the endgame. It can be fun just for the journey. Nothing is forever, even if it is built on open platforms.
hedgehog 3y ago
It's a reason to not stop building. You have to start somewhere but you have to stay in that place. That's why you see successful public personalities diversify away from just the platform / schtick that got them started, they know that to succeed long term they need many ways to reach their audience or organize their community.
- hedgehog 3y ago
  (_don't_ have to stay)

ovao 3y ago

It’s not a good excuse to not build anything, but quite a good excuse to not build on what others own in such a way that you’re entirely reliant on them. Yes, unless you’re self-hosting your product on a solar-powered server via community-owned networks, you’re going to be beholden to someone, and often that’s multiple parties. But that’s not the same as being completely beholden.

threatofrain 3y ago
Many businesses start with single points of failure. The goal is to get enough money to where this is not true, but they all start this way. Ultimately the goal is managing risk, and that often means not building out your own data center as the first thing you do.
- ovao 3y ago
  This, more increasingly, doesn’t mean building out your own data center. Often this just means you can deploy services to multiple platforms without a dramatic or upending burden of effort. I don’t think startups should necessarily burn capital on federation, but startups can at least make engineering decisions and trade-offs to ensure a future livelihood not contingent on single points of failure. Unless you’re Apple or Google, you’ll have some single points of failure. But that’s not the same as the livelihood of what you’re setting out to do being reliant on a single vendor for over a decade.
- rglullis 3y ago
  There is quite a lot between "building your own data center" and "building your tech stack in a way where you are not locked to one specific vendor".

rglullis 3y ago

> a good excuse to never build anything ... on closed platforms. Open and censorship-resistant protocols do not have have this risk, Free Software does not have this risk. So, yes, if in 2023 you are still building things on closed platforms despite all the cautionary tales, you deserve all the snark you'll get.

LudwigNagasena 3y ago
What are some open censorship-resistant protocols? Email?
- klabb3 3y ago
  Http works fine. The risk of a revoked domain name is minuscule in comparison to “whenever we feel like it”.

nightski 3y ago

Maybe, if you only focus on the endgame. It can be fun just for the journey. Nothing is forever, even if it is built on open platforms.

hedgehog 3y ago

It's a reason to not stop building. You have to start somewhere but you have to stay in that place. That's why you see successful public personalities diversify away from just the platform / schtick that got them started, they know that to succeed long term they need many ways to reach their audience or organize their community.

hedgehog 3y ago
(_don't_ have to stay)