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FTP is such a horribly dated protocol; it's actually older than TCP! The NAT issues are well known, but resolved in a standard way. However, the intersection
by aidenn0 3y ago
FTP is such a horribly dated protocol; it's actually older than TCP!
The NAT issues are well known, but resolved in a standard way. However, the intersection of {Features defined in RFCs} and {Features implemented in FTP Servers} is much smaller than the sizes of either set. Many useful things are implemented outside of the spec, and most of the spec is not implemented in servers.
- knorker 3y agoDoes server to server transfer using FXP, though. What other protocol does that?
- jedisct1 3y agoSSH can actually do that.
- adamzochowski 3y agoFTP does FXP without either server knowing credentials of the other. How does what you say "SSH" accomplish server to server transfer without exposing credentials of one server to another?
- jedisct1 3y agoscp bob@host1:/tmp/x john@host2:/tmp/ Also SSH can be configured to use different keys for each server.
- yuubi 3y agonow do that without dragging all the data through your workstation.
- aidenn0 3y agoRecent versions of OpenSsh don't drag the data through your workstation unless you pass "-3" (for triangle routing).
- 8organicbits 3y agoDon't you still need credentials for server A to set up an SSH connection to server B? The question was to avoid that. ~scp is also deprecated on multiple platforms.~ https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/openssh-scp-deprecation-rhel-9-what-you-need-know https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/openssh-scp-deprecation-rhel-...
- aidenn0 3y agoThe scp protocol is deprecated, the scp command is alive and well.
- 8organicbits 3y agoOne poor answer is SSH agent forwarding [1]. At best some SSH agents will prompt at each use, but that's questionable security. Using something like magic wormhole[2] could work. SSH to both sides and run the required commands. [1] https://matrix.org/blog/2019/05/08/post-mortem-and-remediations-for-apr-11-security-incident/#ssh-agent-forwarding-should-be-disabled https://matrix.org/blog/2019/05/08/post-mortem-and-remediati... [2] https://magic-wormhole.readthedocs.io/en/latest/welcome.html https://magic-wormhole.readthedocs.io/en/latest/welcome.html
- bananapub 3y agossh to one side and run rsync
- fsckboy 3y agothat exposes your credentials to one of the servers. probably doesn't matter in most cases but it's not as cool as the scp solution suggested here
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- smokel 3y agoI had to look this up, but FTP uses TCP/IP, so it being older than TCP would be a bit odd. It turns out that FTP has gone through some stages of specifications, dating back to 1971. TCP originated in 1974, according to Wikipedia that is. The current version of TCP (RFC 793, 1981) predates the current version of FTP (RFC 959, 1985), and normality is restored.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- yencabulator 3y agoFTP predates TCP/IP, TCP wasn't the first stream transport. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Transfer_Protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Transfer_Protocol > Until 1980, FTP ran on NCP, the predecessor of TCP/IP.
- dn3500 3y agoThere were several application protocols in use at the time of the TCP cutover (1981?), including ftp and telnet. We didn't just throw them away, we ported them over from TCP's predecessor NCP. The one we did throw away was email, which was not a separate protocol, but was implemented as part of ftp. We got rid of that and replaced it with smtp. But the new ftp/tcp servers still supported email for several years as a transition.
- voytec 3y agoI consider FTP as most funky of oldschool protocols due to 2 TCP ports used (ftp-data 20/tcp, ftp 21/tcp).
- smokel 3y agoThe list of TCP and UDP port numbers [1] is a treasure trove of historical artefacts. It's amazingly hard to find information on e.g. "compressnet", which is wasting port 2 and port 3 for eternity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TCP_and_UDP_port_numbers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TCP_and_UDP_port_numbe...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- voytec 3y agoAvailable also at /etc/services or %SystemDrive%\%SystemRoot%\System32\drivers\etc\services id Software's Doom having port 666 (unofficially) assigned is a nice touch.
- teddyh 3y agoActually official list: <https://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers/service-names-port-numbers.xhtml https://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers/...>
- bayindirh 3y agoAnother similar trivia is present in PCI-IDs. Intel got 8086 for themselves. Some other notable examples: Broadcom/LSI: 1000 Motorola: c0de Chrysalis-ITS: cafe Blackmagic bdbd Indigita Corporation dead Middle Digital Inc. deaf Elcus e1c5 Eagle Tech ea01 Essence Tech e55e Echo ecc0 Daiblo Tech db10 Canny Edge caed CACE Tech cace There are many more examples, but it's enough, I think. If you want to dive, source: https://pci-ids.ucw.cz/ https://pci-ids.ucw.cz/
- ta988 3y ago
- mistrial9 3y agocasting vague aspersions early network engineers were often rude and insulting. It was common to be berated about "vi or emacs" or other dense topic. Communication between engineers was often verbal commands or mild insults like this one.
- aidenn0 3y ago> early network engineers were often rude and insulting. It was common to be berated about "vi or emacs" or other dense topic. Communication between engineers was often verbal commands or mild insults like this one. Indeed; try suggesting any circuit-switched solution with Vint Cerf in the room and see what happens!
- FireBeyond 3y agoReminds me of this Dilbert cartoon (https://buffer.com/resources/content/images/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Dilbert.gif https://buffer.com/resources/content/images/wp-content/uploa...): Dilbert: My company asked all employees to act as salespeople to friends and family. I think you could use this, Mom. Dilbert's Mom: Why would I need a primary rate circuit? I've already got a frame relay drop to my web server in the sewing room. Dilbert [thinking]: This is going to be a tough sale. Dilbert's Mom: Hello-o-o! Earth to Dilbert! This is packet data!
- krger 3y agoYeah it’s a good thing none of that happens anymore these days.
- Delk 3y agoThe "FTP" archive is also served over HTTPS nowadays, and has been for a long time. The hostname may still be ftp.funet.fi but there's an HTTP(S) server listening. I'm actually a bit surprised that they do also seem to still run an actual FTP server there as well.
- II2II 3y agoIf you like working with old machines, you quickly learn to appreciate the availability of FTP servers. Encrypted connections are quite CPU intensive, particularly when negotiating the connection.
- yencabulator 3y agoYou don't need FTP to avoid TLS: curl http://ftp.funet.fi/README http://ftp.funet.fi/README
- geraldhh 3y agoa lot of old (read strange) machines don't have curl or wget available
- warrenm 3y agoIf you're working with something old enough for encrypted connections to be "CPU intensive", you're probably not talking to anything remotely current any way TLS 1.3 is out there TLS 1.2 is ubiquitious I cannot recall the last time I saw anything older than TLS 1.1 anywhere - TLS 1.1 on down into the various SSL specs are all deprecated/unsupported[0] TLS 1.1 and 1.0 have been deprecated for 2 years, SSL3 since 2015, SSL2 since 2011 If you're running something new enough to support TLS 1.1 (at least, 1.2 or 1.3 are much better), then the encryption overhead is very tiny ------- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security
- quadhome 3y agoOver HTTPS or over TLS (neé SSL)?