4 ms·

I've noticed that expression rubs people the wrong way in corporate environments. It gets seen as a cop out from having to put any effort towards a task or issu

I've noticed that expression rubs people the wrong way in corporate environments. It gets seen as a cop out from having to put any effort towards a task or issue, and throws responsibility over the fence abruptly and in an unhelpful way.

CharlesW 3y ago
Many native English speakers I've worked with consider it rude and/or condescending, to the point that on a couple of occasions I've let Indian English speakers know this. My thinking is that if I spoke another language and was using an English phrase that translated poorly, I'd want to know.
- OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
  As a native English speaker I've let my native English speaking management know about all sorts of rude, condescending, infantilizing corporate doublespeak and yet it gets worse every year. "Do the needful" pales in comparison to the codswallop in the layoff notices that get posted here regularly.
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    Yeah, to me it's basically just a vernacular peculiar to Indians that would be almost exactly equivalent to "take care of that". The one that blew me away in my first corporate job was referring to people as "resources". And I don't mean as in the human resources department which I begrudgingly accept. I mean saying things, like "let me get a resource" to mean get a person. I get that we're viewed as replaceable cogs in the machine, but there's no need to rub our faces in that. I actually did have some success in persuading people that it was dehumanizing.
    - howinteresting 3y ago
      See, this is the correct take. Using "resources" for people shook me the first time I heard it in a high-level planning meeting. I'm being serious here that it kept me up all night.
    - OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
      "Headcount" strikes me the same way.
    - SanjayMehta 3y ago
      “Resource” is an artifact of our services companies (outsourcing) and their project management training. Extremely annoying and frustrating as they would yank people off projects and replace them with junior “resources,” and expect no impact on the project.
  - nine_zeros 3y ago
    Oh, the company recognizes your outstanding effort and is offering you a 1% raise. Corporate speak is meant to gaslight people.
    - OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
      2% for me. I met expectations and was accordingly paid for my performance as one of the company's most valuable assets.
- bagels 3y ago
  Are not many or most Indians also native English speakers?
  - thanksgiving 3y ago
    No, they are not. South Indians are a small minority in India.
    - howinteresting 3y ago
      And native English speakers in India also use the phrase.
- kshahkshah 3y ago
  I don't agree with your thinking fwiw but appreciate the intention. 1/4 of a billion people in India speak English, they are just as much "native English speakers" as English speakers in the western world. You could also equally inform western English speakers as to the intention behind the phrase.
  - MollyRealized 3y ago
    I don't necessarily stake a position in your disagreement, but do think there is a difference between majority usage and origin. Then again: "English do[es]n't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll
philwelch 3y ago
I think this is dependent on context. If it's obvious to the recipient exactly what needs to be done and how, I can see "do the needful" being respectful and having the connotation of, "I'm not going to tell you how to do your job". Conversely, if you receive a vague or unactionable complaint followed by "do the needful", it has more of the connotation that you describe.
Stratoscope 3y ago
Yes, to my admittedly West Coast American ear, the phrase comes across as borderline offensive, especially in the version I've seen more often: "Please do the needful." Somehow the "please" makes it even worse. Occasionally I hang out in the English Language Learners Stack Exchange. Some of the questions and answers there make me sad. They often revolve around "is this grammatically correct" rather than "is this a courteous and effective way to communicate?"
- SanjayMehta 3y ago
  I hate the “Kindly do the needful” variant with a passion. Then again, “kind regards” and “thank you kindly” sound condescending to me.

CharlesW 3y ago

Many native English speakers I've worked with consider it rude and/or condescending, to the point that on a couple of occasions I've let Indian English speakers know this. My thinking is that if I spoke another language and was using an English phrase that translated poorly, I'd want to know.

OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
As a native English speaker I've let my native English speaking management know about all sorts of rude, condescending, infantilizing corporate doublespeak and yet it gets worse every year. "Do the needful" pales in comparison to the codswallop in the layoff notices that get posted here regularly.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  Yeah, to me it's basically just a vernacular peculiar to Indians that would be almost exactly equivalent to "take care of that". The one that blew me away in my first corporate job was referring to people as "resources". And I don't mean as in the human resources department which I begrudgingly accept. I mean saying things, like "let me get a resource" to mean get a person. I get that we're viewed as replaceable cogs in the machine, but there's no need to rub our faces in that. I actually did have some success in persuading people that it was dehumanizing.
  - howinteresting 3y ago
    See, this is the correct take. Using "resources" for people shook me the first time I heard it in a high-level planning meeting. I'm being serious here that it kept me up all night.
  - OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
    "Headcount" strikes me the same way.
  - SanjayMehta 3y ago
    “Resource” is an artifact of our services companies (outsourcing) and their project management training. Extremely annoying and frustrating as they would yank people off projects and replace them with junior “resources,” and expect no impact on the project.
- nine_zeros 3y ago
  Oh, the company recognizes your outstanding effort and is offering you a 1% raise. Corporate speak is meant to gaslight people.
  - OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
    2% for me. I met expectations and was accordingly paid for my performance as one of the company's most valuable assets.
bagels 3y ago
Are not many or most Indians also native English speakers?
- thanksgiving 3y ago
  No, they are not. South Indians are a small minority in India.
  - howinteresting 3y ago
    And native English speakers in India also use the phrase.
kshahkshah 3y ago
I don't agree with your thinking fwiw but appreciate the intention. 1/4 of a billion people in India speak English, they are just as much "native English speakers" as English speakers in the western world. You could also equally inform western English speakers as to the intention behind the phrase.
- MollyRealized 3y ago
  I don't necessarily stake a position in your disagreement, but do think there is a difference between majority usage and origin. Then again: "English do[es]n't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll

philwelch 3y ago

I think this is dependent on context. If it's obvious to the recipient exactly what needs to be done and how, I can see "do the needful" being respectful and having the connotation of, "I'm not going to tell you how to do your job". Conversely, if you receive a vague or unactionable complaint followed by "do the needful", it has more of the connotation that you describe.

Stratoscope 3y ago

Yes, to my admittedly West Coast American ear, the phrase comes across as borderline offensive, especially in the version I've seen more often: "Please do the needful." Somehow the "please" makes it even worse. Occasionally I hang out in the English Language Learners Stack Exchange. Some of the questions and answers there make me sad. They often revolve around "is this grammatically correct" rather than "is this a courteous and effective way to communicate?"

SanjayMehta 3y ago
I hate the “Kindly do the needful” variant with a passion. Then again, “kind regards” and “thank you kindly” sound condescending to me.