4 ms·

I know a lot of people who have recovered from alcohol addiction and are living fairly normal lives. ALL the people I’ve known that were trying to stop heroin

by dimmke 3y ago

I know a lot of people who have recovered from alcohol addiction and are living fairly normal lives. ALL the people I’ve known that were trying to stop heroin are dead now. A big part of it is fentanyl but they were known to relapse more frequently and harder. I don’t know anybody who works in recovery who would agree with this statement.

solarman5000 3y ago
The resources and social stigma is vastly different between the two, and way worse for opiate users. The path for getting addicted in the first place is also very different, lots of opiate addicts got hooked after getting them prescribed to them
- dimmke 3y ago
  >The resources and social stigma is vastly different between the two, and way worse for opiate users. I think that actually makes the numbers worse. Alcoholism can be masked somewhat because it's socially acceptable to drink. That often delays people seeking treatment for it, sometimes by decades. There's no broadly socially acceptable form of using opiates recreationally. In terms of resources, it varies significantly but there is Narcan for overdoses and Methadone. I've known people from wealthy backgrounds, who did several stints in rehabs and did not have to worry about having a job etc... they had all the "resources" in the world and still couldn't stay clean. This isn't to say it's hopeless, I'm just saying anecdotally that the number of people I know who have been in recovery specifically for heroin and achieved long term sobriety (>2-3 years) is less than the people I knew who are now dead. Obviously "worse" is a meaningless term unless you specify how it's worse. Maybe they're making a point that alcohol is worse overall for society because of how prevalent it is, but if I was a parent I'd 10000000% rather catch my 16 year old drinking beer than doing opiates of any form.
kjkjadksj 3y ago
Theres also the fact that to overindulge on alcohol takes a remarkable volume of beer or an amount of liquor that would take a very concerted effort to down fast without sending back up soon after. I don’t know whether or not its possible to “microdose” on a recreational amount of heroin in the same way as drinking a single beer might do, forgetting potential fentanyl contamination, or if you would just be extremely high immediately with a lack of a built up opioid tolerance.
- dimmke 3y ago
  I mean, it’s definitely possible that an opiate could be produced that’s very low potency and delivered in the form of a drink if it was legal and there was consumer demand for such a thing. But it’s not and there isn’t. The closest thing I’ve seen to “grabbing a beer” in the form of other recreational drugs is having a pull or two on a weed vape. I’ve had friends who are not in recovery/never had a substance abuse issue who do that. It’s probably better for you in the long run.
- majewsky 3y ago
  > I don’t know whether or not its possible to “microdose” on a recreational amount of heroin Heroin was for some time used as a cough medicine. Does that qualify?
tzs 3y ago
I think that the report is looking on how each drug affects society as a whole. Heroin is worse than alcohol for most individuals but alcohol is far more widespread so can cause more total harm.

by dimmke 3y ago

solarman5000 3y ago

The resources and social stigma is vastly different between the two, and way worse for opiate users. The path for getting addicted in the first place is also very different, lots of opiate addicts got hooked after getting them prescribed to them

dimmke 3y ago
>The resources and social stigma is vastly different between the two, and way worse for opiate users. I think that actually makes the numbers worse. Alcoholism can be masked somewhat because it's socially acceptable to drink. That often delays people seeking treatment for it, sometimes by decades. There's no broadly socially acceptable form of using opiates recreationally. In terms of resources, it varies significantly but there is Narcan for overdoses and Methadone. I've known people from wealthy backgrounds, who did several stints in rehabs and did not have to worry about having a job etc... they had all the "resources" in the world and still couldn't stay clean. This isn't to say it's hopeless, I'm just saying anecdotally that the number of people I know who have been in recovery specifically for heroin and achieved long term sobriety (>2-3 years) is less than the people I knew who are now dead. Obviously "worse" is a meaningless term unless you specify how it's worse. Maybe they're making a point that alcohol is worse overall for society because of how prevalent it is, but if I was a parent I'd 10000000% rather catch my 16 year old drinking beer than doing opiates of any form.

kjkjadksj 3y ago

Theres also the fact that to overindulge on alcohol takes a remarkable volume of beer or an amount of liquor that would take a very concerted effort to down fast without sending back up soon after. I don’t know whether or not its possible to “microdose” on a recreational amount of heroin in the same way as drinking a single beer might do, forgetting potential fentanyl contamination, or if you would just be extremely high immediately with a lack of a built up opioid tolerance.

dimmke 3y ago
I mean, it’s definitely possible that an opiate could be produced that’s very low potency and delivered in the form of a drink if it was legal and there was consumer demand for such a thing. But it’s not and there isn’t. The closest thing I’ve seen to “grabbing a beer” in the form of other recreational drugs is having a pull or two on a weed vape. I’ve had friends who are not in recovery/never had a substance abuse issue who do that. It’s probably better for you in the long run.
majewsky 3y ago
> I don’t know whether or not its possible to “microdose” on a recreational amount of heroin Heroin was for some time used as a cough medicine. Does that qualify?

tzs 3y ago

I think that the report is looking on how each drug affects society as a whole. Heroin is worse than alcohol for most individuals but alcohol is far more widespread so can cause more total harm.