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> In theory at least, there can always be browser or search alternatives. In theory, you can also get a non-Apple/Google mobile phone, but in practice you cann

> In theory at least, there can always be browser or search alternatives. In theory, you can also get a non-Apple/Google mobile phone, but in practice you cannot. In some cases these corporations have more power than the government. It's also very easy for these companies to work with the government to give them access to your data, so there's not really much of a delineation anyway.

beebeepka 3y ago
Just a reminder dumb phones exist, are still widely available, and very cheap. You may not see them much but you can buy them. It's far from theoretical
- AlotOfReading 3y ago
  Imagine that you have a dumb phone that just makes calls and you have the unfortunate luck to be forced into using id.me while paying your taxes. Guess what your options are: 1) using the id.me app that doesn't work on your phone 2) doing a video call after waiting in line for several hours, which your phone may not have the selfie camera to do 3) going to a physical kiosk that may be hours away Having a smartphone is practically required in modern life. Commercial services assume them. Government services assume them. Social interactions assume them.
- runnerup 3y ago
  Ah yes I love not being to use Uber , rent scooters, rent municipal bicycles, check in at my gym, use Duo app 2FA to use SSH at work, or open the doors at my apartment complex. Turns out, dumb phones are not actually an option anymore.
  - sodality2 3y ago
    Carry a smartphone that you only use to do those things. Powered off all the way when not using it. Almost everything in that list, is not actually an impossibility for you to get around using. The first half is basically conveniences you're used to having. Buy a bicycle! Print your gym ID or provide name/phone number (this has worked at every gym I've been to)! Tell your job you need them to provide hardware if they want you to use the app. If your apartment really only opens with an app, I'd see if you can clone the RFID and toss it on a keychain. Everything is an option, it's a decision of convenience. More and more I am thinking it's not worth the convenience.
    - runnerup 3y ago
      Yeah… I kinda need this job. They’ve told me it’s a hard requirement. Maybe some day I won’t be in such a desperate situation. Until then your suggestions sound untenable for my situation, but thanks. The apartment is not RFID/NFC. It’s HTTPS. Yes, that’s as insane as it sounds. Also, “you can just hack the HTTPS API to trigger via SMS over twilio” is not a convincing argument towards “people don’t need smartphones”. Arguments towards your thesis are kind of going off the rails there, if I’m being honest.
      - jrflowers 3y ago
        This is a good point. Your apartment building requires a smart phone to get into and therefore everyone lives in apartment buildings that require smart phones to enter. It is silly to discuss living without a smart phone given the homogenous nature of our shared reality.
        runnerup 3y ago
        Per this logic, what topics ever can be discussed?
        jrflowers 3y ago
        Troubleshooting Bluetooth.
      - sodality2 3y ago
        I understand, but it frustrates me that your job gets to bully you into giving up your mobile devices for them to use. Depending on where you are, you may be able to make them provide a device or subsidize your bill/contract. For them to say it's a 'hard requirement' yet not provide for it.. it's like having employees pay for their safety equipment they need (which is illegal per OSHA). At the very least, if you're using your phone for work, look into tax deductions for your bills... https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/cochran-v-schwans-home-service-inc-29786/ https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/cochran-v-schwans-home-ser... Also re: the door situation, maybe carrying around a smartphone on airplane/powered down for this? Personally I also need a few apps, so I'd keep it around for that?

beebeepka 3y ago

Just a reminder dumb phones exist, are still widely available, and very cheap. You may not see them much but you can buy them. It's far from theoretical

AlotOfReading 3y ago
Imagine that you have a dumb phone that just makes calls and you have the unfortunate luck to be forced into using id.me while paying your taxes. Guess what your options are: 1) using the id.me app that doesn't work on your phone 2) doing a video call after waiting in line for several hours, which your phone may not have the selfie camera to do 3) going to a physical kiosk that may be hours away Having a smartphone is practically required in modern life. Commercial services assume them. Government services assume them. Social interactions assume them.
runnerup 3y ago
Ah yes I love not being to use Uber , rent scooters, rent municipal bicycles, check in at my gym, use Duo app 2FA to use SSH at work, or open the doors at my apartment complex. Turns out, dumb phones are not actually an option anymore.
- sodality2 3y ago
  Carry a smartphone that you only use to do those things. Powered off all the way when not using it. Almost everything in that list, is not actually an impossibility for you to get around using. The first half is basically conveniences you're used to having. Buy a bicycle! Print your gym ID or provide name/phone number (this has worked at every gym I've been to)! Tell your job you need them to provide hardware if they want you to use the app. If your apartment really only opens with an app, I'd see if you can clone the RFID and toss it on a keychain. Everything is an option, it's a decision of convenience. More and more I am thinking it's not worth the convenience.
  - runnerup 3y ago
    Yeah… I kinda need this job. They’ve told me it’s a hard requirement. Maybe some day I won’t be in such a desperate situation. Until then your suggestions sound untenable for my situation, but thanks. The apartment is not RFID/NFC. It’s HTTPS. Yes, that’s as insane as it sounds. Also, “you can just hack the HTTPS API to trigger via SMS over twilio” is not a convincing argument towards “people don’t need smartphones”. Arguments towards your thesis are kind of going off the rails there, if I’m being honest.
    - jrflowers 3y ago
      This is a good point. Your apartment building requires a smart phone to get into and therefore everyone lives in apartment buildings that require smart phones to enter. It is silly to discuss living without a smart phone given the homogenous nature of our shared reality.
      - runnerup 3y ago
        Per this logic, what topics ever can be discussed?
        jrflowers 3y ago
        Troubleshooting Bluetooth.
    - sodality2 3y ago
      I understand, but it frustrates me that your job gets to bully you into giving up your mobile devices for them to use. Depending on where you are, you may be able to make them provide a device or subsidize your bill/contract. For them to say it's a 'hard requirement' yet not provide for it.. it's like having employees pay for their safety equipment they need (which is illegal per OSHA). At the very least, if you're using your phone for work, look into tax deductions for your bills... https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/cochran-v-schwans-home-service-inc-29786/ https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/cochran-v-schwans-home-ser... Also re: the door situation, maybe carrying around a smartphone on airplane/powered down for this? Personally I also need a few apps, so I'd keep it around for that?