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Cory Doctorow has a prescient talk: "The coming war on general computation" from 2011 (12 years ago) in which he argues that all general computing platforms (OS

Cory Doctorow has a prescient talk: "The coming war on general computation" from 2011 (12 years ago) in which he argues that all general computing platforms (OS, phone OS, browser) would face challenges by governments and corporations. This looks like another way to control content distribution and put more control in Google's hands. They've made a great strategic choice in building Chrome browser and effectively superseded Microsoft and Apple on desktops as a platform. The talk can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUEvRyemKSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUEvRyemKSg When people have means to consume or produce content without control any governmental bureaucrat will try to control this activity. History supports this argument. No printing press > no cheap books > illiterate population > easy to control what spreads as information and what do not. Printing press arrived > cheap books > growing literacy > control over the presses. Lenin's first targets were the post/telegraph (communication), bridges and railways (movement of people) and all big printing houses (Lenin's Full Collected works - vol. 32, page 282) Radio arrived > Fixed Frequencies Radio sets sold & Governmental Radio jamming stations TV > Licence to broadcast Internet > Big Firewall of China & etc... And don't even think about moving money freely as experienced by requirement to show why are you paying someone and those nice people from bank compliance departments. The cost of enforcement in digital economy is way cheaper than before. The tools are there or can be built cheaply and sadly they're only built one way, from the government to the people. Open governmental data and strong society control over governmental actions is almost non-existent. "Brave new world" is here. There should be a way to support important open-source projects with fundraising drives for features and etc ... Open source is one of the very few ways to sustain important digital freedoms.

Nifty3929 3y ago
"more control in Google's hands." I'm much more worried about more control in the government's hands. In theory at least, there can always be browser or search alternatives. And even if not widespread there will be options for motivated individuals who want a more permissive browser and internet experience. But I can't escape the government - certainly not without the risk of imprisonment or other legal trouble. I don't want to be controlled by either corporations or the government, but more and more they seem one-in-the-same. The government uses corporations to administer the control, with the force of law to back it up. As in this case - this is censorship that the government wants, but they force browser companies to administer that censorship under penalty of law.
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  > In theory at least, there can always be browser or search alternatives. In theory, you can also get a non-Apple/Google mobile phone, but in practice you cannot. In some cases these corporations have more power than the government. It's also very easy for these companies to work with the government to give them access to your data, so there's not really much of a delineation anyway.
  - beebeepka 3y ago
    Just a reminder dumb phones exist, are still widely available, and very cheap. You may not see them much but you can buy them. It's far from theoretical
    - AlotOfReading 3y ago
      Imagine that you have a dumb phone that just makes calls and you have the unfortunate luck to be forced into using id.me while paying your taxes. Guess what your options are: 1) using the id.me app that doesn't work on your phone 2) doing a video call after waiting in line for several hours, which your phone may not have the selfie camera to do 3) going to a physical kiosk that may be hours away Having a smartphone is practically required in modern life. Commercial services assume them. Government services assume them. Social interactions assume them.
    - runnerup 3y ago
      Ah yes I love not being to use Uber , rent scooters, rent municipal bicycles, check in at my gym, use Duo app 2FA to use SSH at work, or open the doors at my apartment complex. Turns out, dumb phones are not actually an option anymore.
      - sodality2 3y ago
        Carry a smartphone that you only use to do those things. Powered off all the way when not using it. Almost everything in that list, is not actually an impossibility for you to get around using. The first half is basically conveniences you're used to having. Buy a bicycle! Print your gym ID or provide name/phone number (this has worked at every gym I've been to)! Tell your job you need them to provide hardware if they want you to use the app. If your apartment really only opens with an app, I'd see if you can clone the RFID and toss it on a keychain. Everything is an option, it's a decision of convenience. More and more I am thinking it's not worth the convenience.
hedora 3y ago
As much as I like Doctorow, Max Headroom’s authors were a few steps ahead of current thinking way back in 1988. (S2E13: “Lessons”) The end game has nothing to do with limiting piracy or controlling political speech. Those are just a means to an end. Ultimately, there will always be some people in power whose goals are illiteracy and weaponizing general purpose computation. This phenomenon is not new. We produce more food than humanity needs, but warlords and first world governments routinely cause famines by weaponizing food distribution.

Nifty3929 3y ago

"more control in Google's hands." I'm much more worried about more control in the government's hands. In theory at least, there can always be browser or search alternatives. And even if not widespread there will be options for motivated individuals who want a more permissive browser and internet experience. But I can't escape the government - certainly not without the risk of imprisonment or other legal trouble. I don't want to be controlled by either corporations or the government, but more and more they seem one-in-the-same. The government uses corporations to administer the control, with the force of law to back it up. As in this case - this is censorship that the government wants, but they force browser companies to administer that censorship under penalty of law.

bluefishinit 3y ago
> In theory at least, there can always be browser or search alternatives. In theory, you can also get a non-Apple/Google mobile phone, but in practice you cannot. In some cases these corporations have more power than the government. It's also very easy for these companies to work with the government to give them access to your data, so there's not really much of a delineation anyway.
- beebeepka 3y ago
  Just a reminder dumb phones exist, are still widely available, and very cheap. You may not see them much but you can buy them. It's far from theoretical
  - AlotOfReading 3y ago
    Imagine that you have a dumb phone that just makes calls and you have the unfortunate luck to be forced into using id.me while paying your taxes. Guess what your options are: 1) using the id.me app that doesn't work on your phone 2) doing a video call after waiting in line for several hours, which your phone may not have the selfie camera to do 3) going to a physical kiosk that may be hours away Having a smartphone is practically required in modern life. Commercial services assume them. Government services assume them. Social interactions assume them.
  - runnerup 3y ago
    Ah yes I love not being to use Uber , rent scooters, rent municipal bicycles, check in at my gym, use Duo app 2FA to use SSH at work, or open the doors at my apartment complex. Turns out, dumb phones are not actually an option anymore.
    - sodality2 3y ago
      Carry a smartphone that you only use to do those things. Powered off all the way when not using it. Almost everything in that list, is not actually an impossibility for you to get around using. The first half is basically conveniences you're used to having. Buy a bicycle! Print your gym ID or provide name/phone number (this has worked at every gym I've been to)! Tell your job you need them to provide hardware if they want you to use the app. If your apartment really only opens with an app, I'd see if you can clone the RFID and toss it on a keychain. Everything is an option, it's a decision of convenience. More and more I am thinking it's not worth the convenience.

hedora 3y ago

As much as I like Doctorow, Max Headroom’s authors were a few steps ahead of current thinking way back in 1988. (S2E13: “Lessons”) The end game has nothing to do with limiting piracy or controlling political speech. Those are just a means to an end. Ultimately, there will always be some people in power whose goals are illiteracy and weaponizing general purpose computation. This phenomenon is not new. We produce more food than humanity needs, but warlords and first world governments routinely cause famines by weaponizing food distribution.