4 ms·

My opinion is that "star trek has strong elements of science fantasy" because everyone cruises around the galaxy at many multiples of the Speed of Light. There

My opinion is that "star trek has strong elements of science fantasy" because everyone cruises around the galaxy at many multiples of the Speed of Light. There is routine FTL, with not even a nod to the effects on causality known since 1907 (1) The shows plots are optimistic, promoting teamwork and an utopian social structure, IMHO that is far secondary to the "easy FTL" issue. 1 ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyonic_antitelephone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyonic_antitelephone

uncletaco 3y ago
I love how “science fantasy” has shifted to the point where it is anything that includes FTL. Really shows what happens when we give nerds the internet.
- SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  Well, to put the above more compactly: my opinion is that FTL is a fantasy. Not only does FTL ignore physics established since 1910, it is lazy to pretend that it's the same only faster: the truth of relativistic physics is far more complex, interesting and just plain weirder than that. If you're aiming at "sci-fi" not a horse opera in space, why not embrace that?
  - uncletaco 3y ago
    Because it’s not that deep and the realm of the possible shifts differently for scientists and writers and the general public. For a lot of people science fiction is defined by tropes and trappings but not so much the possibilities. For instance when I was a kid Star Wars was still considered sci-fi because it had lasers and spaceships. For a lot of people that’s all sci-fi means. But language evolves and so does our understanding of what a genre should include. Like my favorite novel accelerando is about the singularity, a concept many nerds were interested in about 20 years ago. These days we’ve all kind of accepted it’s a silly thing that doesn’t make sense but does that mean we should reclassify all of the fiction written around it as a concept as science fantasy? At one point tech has advanced to the point where they’re cloning humans so cheaply that politicians are cloning multiple versions of themselves to go campaigning. Does this impossible scenario make those books science fantasy, even though they get a lot of the science right elsewhere? Because if the answer is yes then we’d probably need to rename all sci-fi sections in bookstores to science fantasy because that’s the majority of what’s in them: fun shit with a veneer of science behind it.
    - throwaway60707 3y ago
      I see it much more simply. It makes you feel a sense of wonder through magical abilities, places and creatures - it's fantasy. It talks about advanced civilizations with unknown/impossible technology - it's sci-fi. That's the distinction bookstores make, IMHO.
aldarion 3y ago
I don't think you can call FTL a "fantasy". It is simply a plot device necessitated by the interstellar setting.
- SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  FTL is a fantasy. i.e. not actual, not even possible, not even a self-consistent, coherent idea. If magic dragons were a necessary plot device, they'd still be a fantasy.

uncletaco 3y ago

I love how “science fantasy” has shifted to the point where it is anything that includes FTL. Really shows what happens when we give nerds the internet.

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
Well, to put the above more compactly: my opinion is that FTL is a fantasy. Not only does FTL ignore physics established since 1910, it is lazy to pretend that it's the same only faster: the truth of relativistic physics is far more complex, interesting and just plain weirder than that. If you're aiming at "sci-fi" not a horse opera in space, why not embrace that?
- uncletaco 3y ago
  Because it’s not that deep and the realm of the possible shifts differently for scientists and writers and the general public. For a lot of people science fiction is defined by tropes and trappings but not so much the possibilities. For instance when I was a kid Star Wars was still considered sci-fi because it had lasers and spaceships. For a lot of people that’s all sci-fi means. But language evolves and so does our understanding of what a genre should include. Like my favorite novel accelerando is about the singularity, a concept many nerds were interested in about 20 years ago. These days we’ve all kind of accepted it’s a silly thing that doesn’t make sense but does that mean we should reclassify all of the fiction written around it as a concept as science fantasy? At one point tech has advanced to the point where they’re cloning humans so cheaply that politicians are cloning multiple versions of themselves to go campaigning. Does this impossible scenario make those books science fantasy, even though they get a lot of the science right elsewhere? Because if the answer is yes then we’d probably need to rename all sci-fi sections in bookstores to science fantasy because that’s the majority of what’s in them: fun shit with a veneer of science behind it.
  - throwaway60707 3y ago
    I see it much more simply. It makes you feel a sense of wonder through magical abilities, places and creatures - it's fantasy. It talks about advanced civilizations with unknown/impossible technology - it's sci-fi. That's the distinction bookstores make, IMHO.

aldarion 3y ago

I don't think you can call FTL a "fantasy". It is simply a plot device necessitated by the interstellar setting.

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
FTL is a fantasy. i.e. not actual, not even possible, not even a self-consistent, coherent idea. If magic dragons were a necessary plot device, they'd still be a fantasy.