12 ms·

Double Fine Adventure Kickstarter finishes at $3,335,250

172 points by xelfer 15y ago

xelfer 15y ago
and it still seems to be rising, not sure how that's happening after the time was reached, maybe some are still completing transactions?
shingen 15y ago
Several impressive numbers in there. 100 backers at $1,000 a shot. $38 per pledge. Oh and exceeding the goal by nearly $3 million.
- 3lit3H4ck3r 15y ago
  Awesome stuff! Truly a great day for the project, Kickstarter and the internet overall. Not only traditional publishers trembling, but their establishment middlemen financiers...only place to go from here is up with any single inventor or team with a concept that can catch the eye of the funding crowd!
  - jstevens85 15y ago
    Traditional publishers trembling? That would seem unlikely to me given that one of the legends of the game development community only managed to raise a budget equivalent to an average XBLA game.
    - jerf 15y ago
      First, patience. Second... if you don't try to pace the AAA games on graphics quality or the other de rigeur time and money sinks that add disproportionately little to the final experience, you can do a lot with that amount of money.
    - Ralith 15y ago
      An average XBLA game makes millions? I need to change careers.
      - ido 15y ago
        He was talking about budget, not profits. I don't know about average but I wouldn't be surprised if quite a bit of XBLA/PSN (not XBLIG) are made at around that budget point (AAA games on the other hand commonly have budgets in the 10s of millions, some ever more). The common XBLA game probably loses money.
zacman85 15y ago
I loved Tim's (approximate) celebration quote: "I don't want to say this is the end of the game publishing as we know it...... I'm sure a few games will still need publishers." Classic.
robryan 15y ago
Seems to be the start of something big, Wasteland 2 launched today on kickstarted and is about to hit $400,000. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2
- forrestthewoods 15y ago
  Wasteland 2 being successful is far more impressive to me than Double Fine Adventure. DFA was a perfect storm. Amazing and funny front man in Tim Shafer. A proven studio that has released multiple games of similar small scope in recent years. Plus a pair of guys (Tim + Ron Gilbert) who practically invented the genre in the early 90s. Amazing, awesome, and wonderful that they were so successful but not necessarily a sign of things to come. Wasteland 2 on the other is a different story. A front man with strong pedigree, but most people have never heard of. A game that came out in 1988 and only ever sold 100k units (plus lord knows how many pirated copies). A studio that few have heard of. With DFA it's easy to say that this Kickstarter fad is just a fad. With Wasteland 2 it shows to have a little more leg. I can't wait to see what large scale project is successful next.
  - psykotic 15y ago
    > A game that came out in 1988 and only ever sold 100k units (plus lord knows how many pirated copies). In those days 100,000 units sold meant a big hit. The original sales numbers for Secret of Monkey Island were in that neighborhood.
    - Macsenour 15y ago
      My first game for the Commodore 64, a port, sold 18,000 copies. It was considered a big hit at that time, 1983.
  - TillE 15y ago
    Wasteland is of course best known as a precursor to Fallout, but it's extremely obscure compared to Fallout. I really can't figure out where the 10,000+ backers are coming from. Kickstarter really could revolutionize the industry. This is incredible. We've seen small indie games on the order of $10k being funded all the time, but not $1M budgets. That's not enough for a AAA game, but it is enough to run a small studio rather than a couple guys in a basement. Oh, and most importantly, the type of game promised (an old-school hardcore turn-based CRPG) is radically different from what's fashionable today, even among indies. They're not just making a sequel, they're reviving a genre. This is truly exciting.
waterlesscloud 15y ago
They're having fun with it already- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdq8odshMls http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdq8odshMls
Aloisius 15y ago
This was an amazing success especially given no equity traded hands. Game publishers shouldn't be the only ones worried. While I don't see it being easy to do initial angel funding on Kickstarter, it clearly is possible to raise significant amounts of money if you either have a good product and/or a name.
- nkassis 15y ago
  Tim Schafer said it in an interview (with NPR I believe) this isn't replacing traditional publishers (yet followed by evil laugh). I think the two can coexist. This was a great way to revive a game genre with following that is still to small for a AAA publisher to go after. I think people who want to be successful with crowdsourcing like this will need to follow that pattern and attack small undeserved niche markets.
  - sirclueless 15y ago
    Do you mean "underserved"? I agree that the two can coexist (and probably have to). Kickstarter might work for areas with untapped potential when the game is published by a recognized personality with public goodwill on their side. But to be honest, to actually do something novel and unproven, or with a budget that is larger than goodwill can provide, someone needs to take a bigger risk. And to make that happen the I think the risk-takers will need equity. So while I am happy to see this Kickstarter project grow so big, I don't think traditional publishing should or will go away, lest we end up with only the games that someone can pitch to public backers in a Kickstarter video.
    - kennywinker 15y ago
      With the recent crowdfunding bill obama just signed, I hope to see a kickstarter-like site that offers equity instead of "rewards". There are lots of businesses that don't work well as kickstarters, but could work with an equity model.
      - Aloisius 15y ago
ErneX 15y ago
Plus some private backers gave $110,000 (Tim Schafer said that on the live stream from their offices) so that plus Kickstarter would be: $3,445,250
- AceJohnny2 15y ago
  Wasn't that included in the total? I wasn't sure what he said specifically.
  - ugh 15y ago
    No, it wasn't: http://www.doublefine.com/news/comments/the_partys_over_but_the_adventure_has_just_begun/ http://www.doublefine.com/news/comments/the_partys_over_but_... So they really got what they wanted plus three million in the end. (Minus ten or so percent, right? Five for Kickstarter, the rest for Amazon.)
OoTheNigerian 15y ago
They don't just have 87,000 backers. They have a tribe of 87 000!!!. This is absolutely impressive!!! I am sure some shameless lobbyists or companies are thinking of how to put Kickstarter out of business.
axlelonghorn 15y ago
https://twitter.com/#!/TimOfLegend/status/178928061285277699 https://twitter.com/#!/TimOfLegend/status/178928061285277699 "$2.7MM!?! And it looks like our hourly rate is going up! Um, people... three million dollars... that was the budget of Grim Fandango!" This has been such fun to watch happen.
vibrunazo 15y ago
After watching the success of Double Fine Adventure and the Lois CK video. Do you guys think it's reasonable to assume that in the future, big hollywood blockbusters would be funded this way? A common argument from copyright supporters is that it wouldn't be possible to fund such movies without heavy copyright enforcement. But after watching the recent success of Kickstarter and Lois CK. I feel it's getting easier to convince artists that a better world is possible.
- sp332 15y ago
  Hollywood blockbusters are more of an investment banking scheme than a way to fund the making of movies. I don't mean to be cynical, really. But the Hollywood (in particular) works is incompatible with this funding model.
  - vibrunazo 15y ago
    Could you expand on that, or point to where I can read more on it?
    - zipdog 15y ago
      Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting for a starting point (esp. 'Examples'). Also note that states often provide generous tax subsidies to film projects filmed in their territory. Some films can profit their investors without making any money at the box office (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_Boll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_Boll)
- marquis 15y ago
  Independent films can work this way: cast/crew will not get paid, in return for a percentage should it be successful. However it's not possible to do this indefinitely as said crew gets tired of working for free after a while (much like any Kickstarter project wouldn't get a second go if they didn't deliver).
jerf 15y ago
A periodic topic that has come up on HN in the past few weeks is how people can make money in a non-copyright world. A common example brought up is the commission model, where payment is made in advance, but I think people subconsciously discard it as a real possibility because they can't imagine how it could actually happen. Here it is. Yes, Double Fine (and Brian Fargo with the Wasteland 2) come in with a pre-existing reputation worth millions, but while you're there, poke around on Kickstarter's other projects. I never had before, and I am astonished what is on there and has been successfully funded with no apparent name-brand power that I'm aware of. Just look at this stuff: http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/games/most-funded#p1 http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/games/most-fu... There are things that targeted $10,000 and handily blew past them. Relevant to HN's interests as I browse through: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meetpoint/startup-fever-the-board-game-0?ref=category http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meetpoint/startup-fever-... Anyway, back to my point. I think it's time to stop theorizing about how maybe the commission model might work someday in the future maybe sorta, because it's happening now. (The fact that I never even considered browsing around on Kickstarter is itself a testament to my own subconscious bias against the idea.)
- emeltzer 15y ago
  Yep, we targeted 10k for this project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tocguide/toc-guide-to-sf?ref=menu http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tocguide/toc-guide-to-sf...) and with 24 hours to go we have 15k. We certainly don't have any name-brand power!
- 6ren 15y ago
  It's a good point and a step on the way; though these projects are not copyright free (the doublefine one is DRM-free, but not free). Will people pledge money, knowing that the game will be equally available to everyone (i.e. they aren't getting exclusive access in return)? Maybe special bonuses (like doublefine's) will compensate? But what if they also are copyright free...? Perhaps people paying more than the purchase price indicates that they don't mind others getting it for less? Here are the distributions (the last three aren't representative, because the number of units was limited): $ 15 47,946 $ 30 24,636 $ 60 1,090 $ 100 11,530 $ 250 900 $ 500 148 $ 1,000 100 SOLD OUT $ 5,000 10 SOLD OUT $10,000 4 SOLD OUT A game on kickstarter that's free for everyone else would test this. EDIT this free comic + paid hardcopy seems close http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3701721 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3701721 (raised $1,254,120)
brianobush 15y ago
seems like the idea of platform for funding ideas (kickstarter) has proved itself as a valid idea.
- wccrawford 15y ago
  I think it's a bit early to decide that. DoubleFine Adventure and Wasteland 2 are really big hits with the fans, and this is the first time this has happened. There's a lot of emotion involved here. If this were new IP and/or new devs, it wouldn't be nearly so crazy. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it's not going to be a free ride in the future just because these 2 groups did it. They're going to have to work hard for it... Probably a lot harder than these 2 projects did.
  - InclinedPlane 15y ago
    This isn't the first time this has happened. Remember that little game "minecraft"? The game was effectively developed live while pre-orders were sold that allowed people to play the pre-release code. It raised more money than both of these games before it was released. Enough to create a game company with several employees working on other games as well. The fact should be firmly established now: it is feasible to bootstrap the funding of games and even the creation of game companies. Of course it's not going to be easy, and for some people it's going to be harder than for others. But it's always been that way. Making games has always been hard, it's a rather brutal industry that is not very rewarding for most of the people in it.
    - wccrawford 15y ago
      That was different. When I bought Minecraft, I was able to say to myself, "For this price, if I never get an update, it was worth it." That's not the case with these kickstarters.
grimborg 15y ago
Shame that I didn't see this before, I would have sent some cash! I'd love to play a new adventure game by Shaffer/Gilbert.
delackner 15y ago
Happy to see they put some of the extra money to adding Mac support. I wish I saw that news before the window closed, since I ignored the project on first hearing about it because they were going windows-only. Now I see that the Wasteland 2 project also says it is Windows only, but "Maybe" they will add mac compatibility if they get 1.5mil. This suggests that Kickstarter needs a new feature: Pledges that are conditional not just on the project succeeding, but pledges that are conditional on the project exceeding successive tiers of ambition.
- wccrawford 15y ago
  I think Kickstarter will start to add more features like that, now that these giant successes have started. Previously, the money was so low that it wasn't really worth doing things like that.
artist777 15y ago
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VikingCoder 15y ago
I'm a backer, and I'm super-excited. I'm probably a weird one, though, because I don't think I've ever played a Tim Shafer game before. One of the projects that got me really excited was Nataly Dawn's: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/555488012/nataly-dawns-first-solo-album http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/555488012/nataly-dawns-f... She wanted to raise $20,000 to record her first solo album. Nope, she got $104,788. This is the kind of thing that can change someone's life, and it's exciting to see it happen to independent artists. Plus, people aren't "voted off the island" each week... I'd love to see stats about Kickstarter - for each category, what are the percentages for funded or not. For each category, a graph plotting how much people asked for, and how much they received. Stuff like that.

172 points by xelfer 15y ago

and it still seems to be rising, not sure how that's happening after the time was reached, maybe some are still completing transactions?

shingen 15y ago

Several impressive numbers in there. 100 backers at $1,000 a shot. $38 per pledge. Oh and exceeding the goal by nearly $3 million.

3lit3H4ck3r 15y ago
Awesome stuff! Truly a great day for the project, Kickstarter and the internet overall. Not only traditional publishers trembling, but their establishment middlemen financiers...only place to go from here is up with any single inventor or team with a concept that can catch the eye of the funding crowd!
- jstevens85 15y ago
  Traditional publishers trembling? That would seem unlikely to me given that one of the legends of the game development community only managed to raise a budget equivalent to an average XBLA game.
  - jerf 15y ago
    First, patience. Second... if you don't try to pace the AAA games on graphics quality or the other de rigeur time and money sinks that add disproportionately little to the final experience, you can do a lot with that amount of money.
  - Ralith 15y ago
    An average XBLA game makes millions? I need to change careers.
    - ido 15y ago
      He was talking about budget, not profits. I don't know about average but I wouldn't be surprised if quite a bit of XBLA/PSN (not XBLIG) are made at around that budget point (AAA games on the other hand commonly have budgets in the 10s of millions, some ever more). The common XBLA game probably loses money.

zacman85 15y ago

I loved Tim's (approximate) celebration quote: "I don't want to say this is the end of the game publishing as we know it...... I'm sure a few games will still need publishers." Classic.

robryan 15y ago

Seems to be the start of something big, Wasteland 2 launched today on kickstarted and is about to hit $400,000. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2

forrestthewoods 15y ago
Wasteland 2 being successful is far more impressive to me than Double Fine Adventure. DFA was a perfect storm. Amazing and funny front man in Tim Shafer. A proven studio that has released multiple games of similar small scope in recent years. Plus a pair of guys (Tim + Ron Gilbert) who practically invented the genre in the early 90s. Amazing, awesome, and wonderful that they were so successful but not necessarily a sign of things to come. Wasteland 2 on the other is a different story. A front man with strong pedigree, but most people have never heard of. A game that came out in 1988 and only ever sold 100k units (plus lord knows how many pirated copies). A studio that few have heard of. With DFA it's easy to say that this Kickstarter fad is just a fad. With Wasteland 2 it shows to have a little more leg. I can't wait to see what large scale project is successful next.
- psykotic 15y ago
  > A game that came out in 1988 and only ever sold 100k units (plus lord knows how many pirated copies). In those days 100,000 units sold meant a big hit. The original sales numbers for Secret of Monkey Island were in that neighborhood.
  - Macsenour 15y ago
    My first game for the Commodore 64, a port, sold 18,000 copies. It was considered a big hit at that time, 1983.
- TillE 15y ago
  Wasteland is of course best known as a precursor to Fallout, but it's extremely obscure compared to Fallout. I really can't figure out where the 10,000+ backers are coming from. Kickstarter really could revolutionize the industry. This is incredible. We've seen small indie games on the order of $10k being funded all the time, but not $1M budgets. That's not enough for a AAA game, but it is enough to run a small studio rather than a couple guys in a basement. Oh, and most importantly, the type of game promised (an old-school hardcore turn-based CRPG) is radically different from what's fashionable today, even among indies. They're not just making a sequel, they're reviving a genre. This is truly exciting.

waterlesscloud 15y ago

They're having fun with it already- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdq8odshMls http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdq8odshMls

Aloisius 15y ago

This was an amazing success especially given no equity traded hands. Game publishers shouldn't be the only ones worried. While I don't see it being easy to do initial angel funding on Kickstarter, it clearly is possible to raise significant amounts of money if you either have a good product and/or a name.

nkassis 15y ago
Tim Schafer said it in an interview (with NPR I believe) this isn't replacing traditional publishers (yet followed by evil laugh). I think the two can coexist. This was a great way to revive a game genre with following that is still to small for a AAA publisher to go after. I think people who want to be successful with crowdsourcing like this will need to follow that pattern and attack small undeserved niche markets.
- sirclueless 15y ago
  Do you mean "underserved"? I agree that the two can coexist (and probably have to). Kickstarter might work for areas with untapped potential when the game is published by a recognized personality with public goodwill on their side. But to be honest, to actually do something novel and unproven, or with a budget that is larger than goodwill can provide, someone needs to take a bigger risk. And to make that happen the I think the risk-takers will need equity. So while I am happy to see this Kickstarter project grow so big, I don't think traditional publishing should or will go away, lest we end up with only the games that someone can pitch to public backers in a Kickstarter video.
  - kennywinker 15y ago
    With the recent crowdfunding bill obama just signed, I hope to see a kickstarter-like site that offers equity instead of "rewards". There are lots of businesses that don't work well as kickstarters, but could work with an equity model.
    - Aloisius 15y ago

ErneX 15y ago

Plus some private backers gave $110,000 (Tim Schafer said that on the live stream from their offices) so that plus Kickstarter would be: $3,445,250

AceJohnny2 15y ago
Wasn't that included in the total? I wasn't sure what he said specifically.
- ugh 15y ago
  No, it wasn't: http://www.doublefine.com/news/comments/the_partys_over_but_the_adventure_has_just_begun/ http://www.doublefine.com/news/comments/the_partys_over_but_... So they really got what they wanted plus three million in the end. (Minus ten or so percent, right? Five for Kickstarter, the rest for Amazon.)

OoTheNigerian 15y ago

They don't just have 87,000 backers. They have a tribe of 87 000!!!. This is absolutely impressive!!! I am sure some shameless lobbyists or companies are thinking of how to put Kickstarter out of business.

axlelonghorn 15y ago

https://twitter.com/#!/TimOfLegend/status/178928061285277699 https://twitter.com/#!/TimOfLegend/status/178928061285277699 "$2.7MM!?! And it looks like our hourly rate is going up! Um, people... three million dollars... that was the budget of Grim Fandango!" This has been such fun to watch happen.

vibrunazo 15y ago

After watching the success of Double Fine Adventure and the Lois CK video. Do you guys think it's reasonable to assume that in the future, big hollywood blockbusters would be funded this way? A common argument from copyright supporters is that it wouldn't be possible to fund such movies without heavy copyright enforcement. But after watching the recent success of Kickstarter and Lois CK. I feel it's getting easier to convince artists that a better world is possible.

sp332 15y ago
Hollywood blockbusters are more of an investment banking scheme than a way to fund the making of movies. I don't mean to be cynical, really. But the Hollywood (in particular) works is incompatible with this funding model.
- vibrunazo 15y ago
  Could you expand on that, or point to where I can read more on it?
  - zipdog 15y ago
    Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting for a starting point (esp. 'Examples'). Also note that states often provide generous tax subsidies to film projects filmed in their territory. Some films can profit their investors without making any money at the box office (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_Boll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_Boll)
marquis 15y ago
Independent films can work this way: cast/crew will not get paid, in return for a percentage should it be successful. However it's not possible to do this indefinitely as said crew gets tired of working for free after a while (much like any Kickstarter project wouldn't get a second go if they didn't deliver).

jerf 15y ago

A periodic topic that has come up on HN in the past few weeks is how people can make money in a non-copyright world. A common example brought up is the commission model, where payment is made in advance, but I think people subconsciously discard it as a real possibility because they can't imagine how it could actually happen. Here it is. Yes, Double Fine (and Brian Fargo with the Wasteland 2) come in with a pre-existing reputation worth millions, but while you're there, poke around on Kickstarter's other projects. I never had before, and I am astonished what is on there and has been successfully funded with no apparent name-brand power that I'm aware of. Just look at this stuff: http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/games/most-funded#p1 http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/games/most-fu... There are things that targeted $10,000 and handily blew past them. Relevant to HN's interests as I browse through: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meetpoint/startup-fever-the-board-game-0?ref=category http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meetpoint/startup-fever-... Anyway, back to my point. I think it's time to stop theorizing about how maybe the commission model might work someday in the future maybe sorta, because it's happening now. (The fact that I never even considered browsing around on Kickstarter is itself a testament to my own subconscious bias against the idea.)

emeltzer 15y ago
Yep, we targeted 10k for this project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tocguide/toc-guide-to-sf?ref=menu http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tocguide/toc-guide-to-sf...) and with 24 hours to go we have 15k. We certainly don't have any name-brand power!
6ren 15y ago
It's a good point and a step on the way; though these projects are not copyright free (the doublefine one is DRM-free, but not free). Will people pledge money, knowing that the game will be equally available to everyone (i.e. they aren't getting exclusive access in return)? Maybe special bonuses (like doublefine's) will compensate? But what if they also are copyright free...? Perhaps people paying more than the purchase price indicates that they don't mind others getting it for less? Here are the distributions (the last three aren't representative, because the number of units was limited): $ 15 47,946 $ 30 24,636 $ 60 1,090 $ 100 11,530 $ 250 900 $ 500 148 $ 1,000 100 SOLD OUT $ 5,000 10 SOLD OUT $10,000 4 SOLD OUT A game on kickstarter that's free for everyone else would test this. EDIT this free comic + paid hardcopy seems close http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3701721 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3701721 (raised $1,254,120)

brianobush 15y ago

seems like the idea of platform for funding ideas (kickstarter) has proved itself as a valid idea.

wccrawford 15y ago
I think it's a bit early to decide that. DoubleFine Adventure and Wasteland 2 are really big hits with the fans, and this is the first time this has happened. There's a lot of emotion involved here. If this were new IP and/or new devs, it wouldn't be nearly so crazy. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it's not going to be a free ride in the future just because these 2 groups did it. They're going to have to work hard for it... Probably a lot harder than these 2 projects did.
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  This isn't the first time this has happened. Remember that little game "minecraft"? The game was effectively developed live while pre-orders were sold that allowed people to play the pre-release code. It raised more money than both of these games before it was released. Enough to create a game company with several employees working on other games as well. The fact should be firmly established now: it is feasible to bootstrap the funding of games and even the creation of game companies. Of course it's not going to be easy, and for some people it's going to be harder than for others. But it's always been that way. Making games has always been hard, it's a rather brutal industry that is not very rewarding for most of the people in it.
  - wccrawford 15y ago
    That was different. When I bought Minecraft, I was able to say to myself, "For this price, if I never get an update, it was worth it." That's not the case with these kickstarters.

grimborg 15y ago

Shame that I didn't see this before, I would have sent some cash! I'd love to play a new adventure game by Shaffer/Gilbert.

delackner 15y ago

Happy to see they put some of the extra money to adding Mac support. I wish I saw that news before the window closed, since I ignored the project on first hearing about it because they were going windows-only. Now I see that the Wasteland 2 project also says it is Windows only, but "Maybe" they will add mac compatibility if they get 1.5mil. This suggests that Kickstarter needs a new feature: Pledges that are conditional not just on the project succeeding, but pledges that are conditional on the project exceeding successive tiers of ambition.

wccrawford 15y ago
I think Kickstarter will start to add more features like that, now that these giant successes have started. Previously, the money was so low that it wasn't really worth doing things like that.

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VikingCoder 15y ago

I'm a backer, and I'm super-excited. I'm probably a weird one, though, because I don't think I've ever played a Tim Shafer game before. One of the projects that got me really excited was Nataly Dawn's: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/555488012/nataly-dawns-first-solo-album http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/555488012/nataly-dawns-f... She wanted to raise $20,000 to record her first solo album. Nope, she got $104,788. This is the kind of thing that can change someone's life, and it's exciting to see it happen to independent artists. Plus, people aren't "voted off the island" each week... I'd love to see stats about Kickstarter - for each category, what are the percentages for funded or not. For each category, a graph plotting how much people asked for, and how much they received. Stuff like that.