3 ms·

Flexible Glass in Tiberius’ Rome (2011)

30 points by diodorus 3y ago

ggm 3y ago
Because most glass in our lifetime is transparent or translucent I think we tend to forget the ancients probably saw as much opaque glass and things like volcanic glasses or obsidian, as the transparent or translucent kind. If not more so. Before glass was blown it was moulded and patterned like play-doh around sticks to make small containers for make-up, or beads. The ones I've seen in museums are rarely transmissive glass. Glazes on pottery also are rarely see through. At best you get partial vitrification in bone china until comparatively recently (asia apart and probably only small amounts of translucent china goods were reaching rome from the east. Spices and pearls and silk made good money and were less breakable) A ductile material like aluminium might be a stretch but being far lighter than known metals and "shiny" it's not implausible that if lucked upon it mistranslated as glass. And amorphous metals and glasses do collide, hard disks are very glass like. I do still think it's a myth. It's too complete, the semi magical substance, the wise despot who kills the inventor. A handy moral tale of sorts, the kind it's necessary to invent sometimes. There are some wonderful ancient glassware in museums. Bichromic glass in the B.M, and the Vatican I believe, and exquisite carved translucent cameos.
- flir 3y ago
  I don't think the despot's supposed to be wise. To me, it follows exactly the same pattern as the story about Caliph Omar's destruction of the Library of Alexandria. As you say, it's too pat.
- jasonjamerson 3y ago
  You can make plastic out of milk and vinegar. Aluminum or tin is a good guess too. Some weird craftsmanship and a game of historical telephone is probably the basis of this and many more strange tales.
- Iulioh 3y ago
  >A ductile material like aluminium might be a stretch Worth knowing that alluminium is an extremely hard metal to refine without modern processing. It was considered rarer than gold in the 1800 and Napoleon would impress his guests with alluminium spoons and forks
- xeonmc 3y ago
  So what you’re saying is, they had transparent aluminum?
  - thatguy0900 3y ago
    I think he's suggesting that our modern view of glass as clear is probably not what Roman's would have pictured first. They would have been far more used to non transparent glass, and might have mistaken aluminum for glass considering it's lightness
    - ggm 3y ago
      Aluminium is the least likely metal given other information presented here.
twic 3y ago
> Some speculate about the “pouring” of some Great Pyramid blocks using a geopolymer and crushed limestone. I'd forgotten about this! We should be clear that the "some" here are cranks: http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/ http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/

30 points by diodorus 3y ago

ggm 3y ago

Because most glass in our lifetime is transparent or translucent I think we tend to forget the ancients probably saw as much opaque glass and things like volcanic glasses or obsidian, as the transparent or translucent kind. If not more so. Before glass was blown it was moulded and patterned like play-doh around sticks to make small containers for make-up, or beads. The ones I've seen in museums are rarely transmissive glass. Glazes on pottery also are rarely see through. At best you get partial vitrification in bone china until comparatively recently (asia apart and probably only small amounts of translucent china goods were reaching rome from the east. Spices and pearls and silk made good money and were less breakable) A ductile material like aluminium might be a stretch but being far lighter than known metals and "shiny" it's not implausible that if lucked upon it mistranslated as glass. And amorphous metals and glasses do collide, hard disks are very glass like. I do still think it's a myth. It's too complete, the semi magical substance, the wise despot who kills the inventor. A handy moral tale of sorts, the kind it's necessary to invent sometimes. There are some wonderful ancient glassware in museums. Bichromic glass in the B.M, and the Vatican I believe, and exquisite carved translucent cameos.

flir 3y ago
I don't think the despot's supposed to be wise. To me, it follows exactly the same pattern as the story about Caliph Omar's destruction of the Library of Alexandria. As you say, it's too pat.
jasonjamerson 3y ago
You can make plastic out of milk and vinegar. Aluminum or tin is a good guess too. Some weird craftsmanship and a game of historical telephone is probably the basis of this and many more strange tales.
Iulioh 3y ago
>A ductile material like aluminium might be a stretch Worth knowing that alluminium is an extremely hard metal to refine without modern processing. It was considered rarer than gold in the 1800 and Napoleon would impress his guests with alluminium spoons and forks
xeonmc 3y ago
So what you’re saying is, they had transparent aluminum?
- thatguy0900 3y ago
  I think he's suggesting that our modern view of glass as clear is probably not what Roman's would have pictured first. They would have been far more used to non transparent glass, and might have mistaken aluminum for glass considering it's lightness
  - ggm 3y ago
    Aluminium is the least likely metal given other information presented here.

twic 3y ago

> Some speculate about the “pouring” of some Great Pyramid blocks using a geopolymer and crushed limestone. I'd forgotten about this! We should be clear that the "some" here are cranks: http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/ http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/