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Is anyone familiar with a solid open source printer hardware project? Given all of the issues with printers over the years (driver compatibility, ink cartridge

Is anyone familiar with a solid open source printer hardware project? Given all of the issues with printers over the years (driver compatibility, ink cartridge drm, things like the above post), I’m curious if there is a reason open source printer hardware is not more common. My assumption would be the complexity of the print mechanism / tolerances / balancing.

askvictor 3y ago
Printing is hard. Printing fast is harder. The main reason printers still suck, 40-odd years later, is because it's really hard, at least in the consumer market, where you don't expect regular service, and there's a race to the bottom in terms of price.
mdaniel 3y ago
this question comes up on a lot of the "printer rage" threads <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=false&query=%22open%20source%22%20%22printer%22&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=fal...> and my recollection of the majority of the substantial discussions seem to imply that there are patents which are a major obstacle to any such effort, above and beyond the general "hardware development is its own specialization" problem Now, what I don't know (and don't recall seeing) is whether that's true of every jurisdiction or if it's just a US-centric problem and the EU could have their revenge by having an open printer that US consumers couldn't buy :-/
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
  I thought patents were 20 years. At the time, in the early 2000s, I thought the HP Laserjet 4000 was a tank. Is there any reason someone would be prevented from replicating a circa 2003 model printer?
userbinator 3y ago
There are plenty of open-source 3D printers but doesn't seem to be any 2D ones. That said, I think open-source firmware for existing 2D printers would be a better idea, perhaps with a controller board to retrofit into existing mechanisms since I suspect they've heavily used crypto to lock out alternative firmware. Driving the two axes is relatively simple, but RE'ing printhead signals and driving those are probably going to be the most difficult part.
- NortySpock 3y ago
  I assume the print-head and paper-feeding are the hardest parts, but I would absolutely be interested in exploring how to liberate 2D printing into an open-source ecosystem just as 3D printing has an ecosystem...
- exmadscientist 3y ago
  In general the hardware on a 2D printer is simply more difficult than most or all of the OSHW stuff. Paper handling is hell (there's a great magazine article from a few years back on the Xerox division who handles this... they're wizards, the lot of them). Hardware, software, and environment dependent. Everything needs to be RIPped but that's the sort of thing which software is really good at and which is well suited to open source. For an inkjet driving the nozzles is the nasty bit. First figure out which ones to fire when, then you have to actually do it. I'm told by those in the know that this really just can't be done well enough in software, you need the timing control of FPGA/ASIC solutions. So, very doable, but hard. Laser printers have difficult drum and transfer belt issues but solutions are mostly copyable from existing products. Driving the laser diode itself is pretty easy (admittedly I've worked with laser guys, but still). The hard bit is pointing the laser in the right direction, with either spinny prisms or galvos. Or you could forgo the laser in favor of an LED array but I don't think anyone (Oki?) ever got great results out of that. Overall a B&W laser is probably the easiest thing to start with. That all said, everyone knows China's reputation in the hardware space: clone, clone, clone. And yet, how many Chinese printers do you come across? There's probably a reason for that. It sure isn't lack of skill. It's probably just that printers are awful.
  - userbinator 3y ago
    For an inkjet driving the nozzles is the nasty bit. First figure out which ones to fire when, then you have to actually do it. I'm told by those in the know that this really just can't be done well enough in software, you need the timing control of FPGA/ASIC solutions. So, very doable, but hard. To get a rough idea of the frequencies involved, consider a 1440x1440 DPI printer, with a 12" wide axis and 1" swath. Assume the printhead can move across the full 12" around 5 times per second (this is really fast), for a standard 8.5x11 portrait print this turns out to be around 1 page every 2.2 seconds or 27 pages per minute; at this speed the printhead is moving at 60 inches per second, so for 1440 DPI each nozzle needs to be pulsed at 1440x60=86400kHz or an 11us period, which is not that fast in terms of digital electronics. However, if you're firing 1440 nozzles in parallel, then the total throughput of the data that needs to go into the printhead goes up to 124.416MHz, or closer to 500MHz for all 4 colours, but this is easily parallelisable. That said, those numbers are probably on the high end and represent a fast printer; I'm not even sure any consumer inkjet can do full-colour 1440 DPI at 27PPM.
noAnswer 3y ago
My personal take is: Why bother?! It is a dying marked. Most private people don't need a printer. Just go to a convenient store, for that one print every other year. And for the high volume business side there are still good enough commercial options.
- p1mrx 3y ago
  A monochrome laser printer is useful for USPS shipping, because they pick up at the mailbox. I also print icons for confusing switches around the house (light / fan / garbage disposal) and attach them with clear tape. I recently made a "This Hyundai vehicle is equipped with a push-button ignition" window label to deter TikTok thieves. Inkjets are junk, because the ink dries up within a year. I'm still on my original laser toner from 2007.
  - namibj 3y ago
    You don't need triple digit dpi technology or a stacked paper feeder for shipping labels. And I don't see why a dot matrix printer would be that hard to make. The hardest part would be the ink ribbon, and compared to e.g. an inkjet head that's low tech (plastic foil ribbon coated with essentially laser toner).
snvzz 3y ago
I am always sure to mention this whenever there's talk about printers. We _need_ an open source printer. Ideally a monochrome laser with an automatic paper feeder. For most, it would be the only printer in consideration when in the market for a printer. This is true even if the specs were just at the level of early 90s printers. Even if buying something else, the mere existence of this printer would keep printer brands honest. They get to be scummy because they know we have no alternative.
- Sophira 3y ago
  The fact that there are (formerly) "secret agreement[s] with governments to ensure that the output of those printers is forensically traceable" in the form of the Machine Identification Code[0] suggests that it could potentially be difficult for an open-source 2D printer to gain traction. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code#Hi...
  - snvzz 3y ago
    >suggests that it could potentially be difficult for an open-source 2D printer to gain traction. More difficult, as opposed to easier? Avoiding this (insane) tracking anti-feature is an argument for open source, not against.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
smegger001 3y ago
I mean you would think printers would be THE opensource hardware project as printer hate has been a ongoing issue for as long as people have been attaching them to computers. I mean a shitty closed source printer driver is what acted as the impetus for Richard Stallman to start GNU and peicemeal trying to replace the Unix. it would seem like printing would be the prime target for opensource.
leejo 3y ago
> My assumption would be the complexity of the print mechanism / tolerances / balancing. I once sat on a chairlift with a lawyer who had represented one of the big printer companies and he explained that printers are the perfect storm of: hardware, software, firmware, chemistry, physics, fluid dynamics, paper science, and (yes) lawyers. The larger companies have put billions into R&D, hence them continuing to pull the crap we see every other month on HN.
- thih9 3y ago
  I don’t care about that R&D. I seriously doubt that R&D was about long term cost efficient reliability in a user friendly context - because we’re mostly seeing the opposite. I print two b&w pages per month, for now I’m another happy user of a brother laser printer.
Ekaros 3y ago
I would also venture to say cost. Printers use pretty specific parts and making enough generic versions with all tooling would likely mean unit price is closes to the more expensive side. And then you might as well get one from that price range. They are complex machines with complex parts. And to have those priced sensibly needs volume. Like how many injection moulds would you need? And then you would have one factory equipped.

askvictor 3y ago

Printing is hard. Printing fast is harder. The main reason printers still suck, 40-odd years later, is because it's really hard, at least in the consumer market, where you don't expect regular service, and there's a race to the bottom in terms of price.

mdaniel 3y ago

this question comes up on a lot of the "printer rage" threads <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=false&query=%22open%20source%22%20%22printer%22&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=fal...> and my recollection of the majority of the substantial discussions seem to imply that there are patents which are a major obstacle to any such effort, above and beyond the general "hardware development is its own specialization" problem Now, what I don't know (and don't recall seeing) is whether that's true of every jurisdiction or if it's just a US-centric problem and the EU could have their revenge by having an open printer that US consumers couldn't buy :-/

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
I thought patents were 20 years. At the time, in the early 2000s, I thought the HP Laserjet 4000 was a tank. Is there any reason someone would be prevented from replicating a circa 2003 model printer?

userbinator 3y ago

There are plenty of open-source 3D printers but doesn't seem to be any 2D ones. That said, I think open-source firmware for existing 2D printers would be a better idea, perhaps with a controller board to retrofit into existing mechanisms since I suspect they've heavily used crypto to lock out alternative firmware. Driving the two axes is relatively simple, but RE'ing printhead signals and driving those are probably going to be the most difficult part.

NortySpock 3y ago
I assume the print-head and paper-feeding are the hardest parts, but I would absolutely be interested in exploring how to liberate 2D printing into an open-source ecosystem just as 3D printing has an ecosystem...
exmadscientist 3y ago
In general the hardware on a 2D printer is simply more difficult than most or all of the OSHW stuff. Paper handling is hell (there's a great magazine article from a few years back on the Xerox division who handles this... they're wizards, the lot of them). Hardware, software, and environment dependent. Everything needs to be RIPped but that's the sort of thing which software is really good at and which is well suited to open source. For an inkjet driving the nozzles is the nasty bit. First figure out which ones to fire when, then you have to actually do it. I'm told by those in the know that this really just can't be done well enough in software, you need the timing control of FPGA/ASIC solutions. So, very doable, but hard. Laser printers have difficult drum and transfer belt issues but solutions are mostly copyable from existing products. Driving the laser diode itself is pretty easy (admittedly I've worked with laser guys, but still). The hard bit is pointing the laser in the right direction, with either spinny prisms or galvos. Or you could forgo the laser in favor of an LED array but I don't think anyone (Oki?) ever got great results out of that. Overall a B&W laser is probably the easiest thing to start with. That all said, everyone knows China's reputation in the hardware space: clone, clone, clone. And yet, how many Chinese printers do you come across? There's probably a reason for that. It sure isn't lack of skill. It's probably just that printers are awful.
- userbinator 3y ago
  For an inkjet driving the nozzles is the nasty bit. First figure out which ones to fire when, then you have to actually do it. I'm told by those in the know that this really just can't be done well enough in software, you need the timing control of FPGA/ASIC solutions. So, very doable, but hard. To get a rough idea of the frequencies involved, consider a 1440x1440 DPI printer, with a 12" wide axis and 1" swath. Assume the printhead can move across the full 12" around 5 times per second (this is really fast), for a standard 8.5x11 portrait print this turns out to be around 1 page every 2.2 seconds or 27 pages per minute; at this speed the printhead is moving at 60 inches per second, so for 1440 DPI each nozzle needs to be pulsed at 1440x60=86400kHz or an 11us period, which is not that fast in terms of digital electronics. However, if you're firing 1440 nozzles in parallel, then the total throughput of the data that needs to go into the printhead goes up to 124.416MHz, or closer to 500MHz for all 4 colours, but this is easily parallelisable. That said, those numbers are probably on the high end and represent a fast printer; I'm not even sure any consumer inkjet can do full-colour 1440 DPI at 27PPM.

noAnswer 3y ago

My personal take is: Why bother?! It is a dying marked. Most private people don't need a printer. Just go to a convenient store, for that one print every other year. And for the high volume business side there are still good enough commercial options.

p1mrx 3y ago
A monochrome laser printer is useful for USPS shipping, because they pick up at the mailbox. I also print icons for confusing switches around the house (light / fan / garbage disposal) and attach them with clear tape. I recently made a "This Hyundai vehicle is equipped with a push-button ignition" window label to deter TikTok thieves. Inkjets are junk, because the ink dries up within a year. I'm still on my original laser toner from 2007.
- namibj 3y ago
  You don't need triple digit dpi technology or a stacked paper feeder for shipping labels. And I don't see why a dot matrix printer would be that hard to make. The hardest part would be the ink ribbon, and compared to e.g. an inkjet head that's low tech (plastic foil ribbon coated with essentially laser toner).

snvzz 3y ago

I am always sure to mention this whenever there's talk about printers. We _need_ an open source printer. Ideally a monochrome laser with an automatic paper feeder. For most, it would be the only printer in consideration when in the market for a printer. This is true even if the specs were just at the level of early 90s printers. Even if buying something else, the mere existence of this printer would keep printer brands honest. They get to be scummy because they know we have no alternative.

Sophira 3y ago
The fact that there are (formerly) "secret agreement[s] with governments to ensure that the output of those printers is forensically traceable" in the form of the Machine Identification Code[0] suggests that it could potentially be difficult for an open-source 2D printer to gain traction. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code#Hi...
- snvzz 3y ago
  >suggests that it could potentially be difficult for an open-source 2D printer to gain traction. More difficult, as opposed to easier? Avoiding this (insane) tracking anti-feature is an argument for open source, not against.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

smegger001 3y ago

I mean you would think printers would be THE opensource hardware project as printer hate has been a ongoing issue for as long as people have been attaching them to computers. I mean a shitty closed source printer driver is what acted as the impetus for Richard Stallman to start GNU and peicemeal trying to replace the Unix. it would seem like printing would be the prime target for opensource.

leejo 3y ago

> My assumption would be the complexity of the print mechanism / tolerances / balancing. I once sat on a chairlift with a lawyer who had represented one of the big printer companies and he explained that printers are the perfect storm of: hardware, software, firmware, chemistry, physics, fluid dynamics, paper science, and (yes) lawyers. The larger companies have put billions into R&D, hence them continuing to pull the crap we see every other month on HN.

thih9 3y ago
I don’t care about that R&D. I seriously doubt that R&D was about long term cost efficient reliability in a user friendly context - because we’re mostly seeing the opposite. I print two b&w pages per month, for now I’m another happy user of a brother laser printer.

Ekaros 3y ago

I would also venture to say cost. Printers use pretty specific parts and making enough generic versions with all tooling would likely mean unit price is closes to the more expensive side. And then you might as well get one from that price range. They are complex machines with complex parts. And to have those priced sensibly needs volume. Like how many injection moulds would you need? And then you would have one factory equipped.