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Role mentions security. Candidate shows no experience with security. It would've been weird... but then you remember it's Python. It's by amateurs for amateur

Role mentions security. Candidate shows no experience with security. It would've been weird... but then you remember it's Python. It's by amateurs for amateurs. Well, god speed and god bless. Who knows, maybe despite the counter-indications something good will come out of it.

kstrauser 3y ago
"By amateurs" is a really bizarre label to hit Python with.
- crabbone 3y ago
  You must have never looked at CPython code, nor have you ever read the documentation published with Python, nor have you ever read any PEPs, nor have you ever been on the core-dev mailing list / have read its archives. It would've been really funny how so many people are using this bizarre nonsense, if it weren't for the fact that me and you might also have to use it, directly or indirectly.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    I've done every one of those things. Were you under the impression that other language development is less messy, as opposed to just less public?
    - v3ss0n 3y ago
      From my experience, core python development is much more professional and mature than drama ridden node, rust , nim
    - crabbone 3y ago
      Erlang and Java both have a much better implemented interpreter. I mean, so much better, CPython in comparison looks like some student with very little knowledge of C wrote it. The code makes no attempt at const-correctness, no attempt at minimizing dynamic memory allocation, no attempt at optimizing structures layout... they aren't professional C programmers. They get by by writing crappy code that works somehow. They aren't even in a competition for the best code. Library code in Python is ridiculously bad. By now, it's probably a tradition that instead of solutions it offers workarounds. There's no commonality in how interfaces are structured, things named, arguments to functions are accepted etc. It's a zoo of low quality randomly assembled code. Documentation is also written by people who never cared to be consistent. But not only does it contradict itself between subjects, often the same subject would have plenty of self-contradictory statements simply because the author doesn't know how to think clearly, doesn't know how to express themselves, simply don't understand what they are doing. Every time you read something in documentation, you have to do mental tricks to say "well, it probably doesn't really work like this" or "well, he doesn't really mean it this way" and so on. But, and most importantly: there is no plan, no goal. It's all about randomly adding things and permuting existing ones. There's no reason why new features are introduced. There's no global picture. When stuff gets added, there's no effort to make sure it works with other existing stuff beyond absolute minimum. The language has no taste, no flavor. It's not trying to be the best at anything. It just floats around being the tenth best at best on every metric.
woodruffw 3y ago
Having done plenty of work on PyPI, including lots of security work: Mike is an extremely competent engineer, and has been a significant force[1] in PyPI's overall modernization and maintenance efforts. That kind of work is security work, and it's frequently thankless. [1]: https://github.com/pypi/warehouse/commits?author=miketheman https://github.com/pypi/warehouse/commits?author=miketheman
- crabbone 3y ago
  > has been a significant force[1] in PyPI's overall modernization and maintenance efforts. PyPI is a pile of hot garbage. Being one of people contributing to it is a negative in my book. That's definitely not anything to brag about. How's that a security work again? What's even the connection?

kstrauser 3y ago

"By amateurs" is a really bizarre label to hit Python with.

crabbone 3y ago
You must have never looked at CPython code, nor have you ever read the documentation published with Python, nor have you ever read any PEPs, nor have you ever been on the core-dev mailing list / have read its archives. It would've been really funny how so many people are using this bizarre nonsense, if it weren't for the fact that me and you might also have to use it, directly or indirectly.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  I've done every one of those things. Were you under the impression that other language development is less messy, as opposed to just less public?
  - v3ss0n 3y ago
    From my experience, core python development is much more professional and mature than drama ridden node, rust , nim
  - crabbone 3y ago
    Erlang and Java both have a much better implemented interpreter. I mean, so much better, CPython in comparison looks like some student with very little knowledge of C wrote it. The code makes no attempt at const-correctness, no attempt at minimizing dynamic memory allocation, no attempt at optimizing structures layout... they aren't professional C programmers. They get by by writing crappy code that works somehow. They aren't even in a competition for the best code. Library code in Python is ridiculously bad. By now, it's probably a tradition that instead of solutions it offers workarounds. There's no commonality in how interfaces are structured, things named, arguments to functions are accepted etc. It's a zoo of low quality randomly assembled code. Documentation is also written by people who never cared to be consistent. But not only does it contradict itself between subjects, often the same subject would have plenty of self-contradictory statements simply because the author doesn't know how to think clearly, doesn't know how to express themselves, simply don't understand what they are doing. Every time you read something in documentation, you have to do mental tricks to say "well, it probably doesn't really work like this" or "well, he doesn't really mean it this way" and so on. But, and most importantly: there is no plan, no goal. It's all about randomly adding things and permuting existing ones. There's no reason why new features are introduced. There's no global picture. When stuff gets added, there's no effort to make sure it works with other existing stuff beyond absolute minimum. The language has no taste, no flavor. It's not trying to be the best at anything. It just floats around being the tenth best at best on every metric.

woodruffw 3y ago

Having done plenty of work on PyPI, including lots of security work: Mike is an extremely competent engineer, and has been a significant force[1] in PyPI's overall modernization and maintenance efforts. That kind of work is security work, and it's frequently thankless. [1]: https://github.com/pypi/warehouse/commits?author=miketheman https://github.com/pypi/warehouse/commits?author=miketheman

crabbone 3y ago
> has been a significant force[1] in PyPI's overall modernization and maintenance efforts. PyPI is a pile of hot garbage. Being one of people contributing to it is a negative in my book. That's definitely not anything to brag about. How's that a security work again? What's even the connection?