5 ms·

> [...] obviously visible by how the German armies kept shooting until they were eliminated by other shooting armies. It's not that obvious to me. Of course th

> [...] obviously visible by how the German armies kept shooting until they were eliminated by other shooting armies. It's not that obvious to me. Of course they kept shooting. It's hard to imagine a scale of destruction necessary to bring an industralized country's economy to a full halt. Still, deaths mean decreased workforce which is already strained by the military draft. While, of course, they repaired what they could, (re)building a factory to its full potential takes years and substansial workforce. As to Vietnam/Afganistan, withholding moral judgment on their invasion in the first place, from what very little I know about these historical events, the US operations accomplished their military goals there. They later withdrew not due to Vietcong/Taliban's efforts, but as a result of internal political/societal processes in the US itself.

c_crank 3y ago
>Still, deaths mean decreased workforce which is already strained by the military draft. This imagines a strain on the workforce that never really existed. Industrial countries can and have staffed factories and repair crews with women and the infirm. >As to Vietnam/Afganistan, withholding moral judgment on their invasion in the first place, from what very little I know about these historical events, the US operations accomplished their military goals there. Part of their military goals were destruction of the enemy force via sustained bombing campaigns. These goals were never achieved and instead abandoned.
- myk9001 3y ago
  OK, after reading your and other people's comments explaining ineffectivnes of the bombings, I think you're right, the strategic bombings were ineffective from the military standpoint, wasted resources that could've been put to a more effective use, and inflicted unnecessary suffering on civilians. Point taken. Thank you for engaging in the conversation.
  - fsckboy 3y ago
    except, nobody knew till the end of the war what would be effective and what would not. That entire class of aircraft was invented during the war and the tactics were just being developed. And after the war, new classes of aircraft were developed. The idea that universally useful conclusions can be drawn is what is incorrect.
    - myk9001 3y ago
      Sure, I didn't mean to say the allies were bad guys here, not at all. Of course they were doing the best they could. If they didn't win, it's scary to think what kind of world we would be living in now, assuming we would be living at all. > The idea that universally useful conclusions can be drawn is what is incorrect. You're bringing up an interesting point. I'd like to deeply learn history someday, when I retire, maybe...
- fsckboy 3y ago
  > Industrial countries can and have staffed factories and repair crews with women and the infirm. nobody knows when a war will end. You're making the argument that attrition works
dragonwriter 3y ago
> As to Vietnam/Afganistan, withholding moral judgment on their invasion in the first place, from what very little I know about these historical events, the US operations accomplished their military goals there. They did not. > They later withdrew not due to Vietcong/Taliban’s efforts, but as a result of internal political/societal processes in the US itself. They withdrew because they failed to achieve their military objectives, and the support for continuing to bear the cost of the war without having done so and without confidence that would change in the near future eroded. If they had achieved their military objective, then they would have left sooner (or transitioned to a non-combat footing), having won the war.

c_crank 3y ago

>Still, deaths mean decreased workforce which is already strained by the military draft. This imagines a strain on the workforce that never really existed. Industrial countries can and have staffed factories and repair crews with women and the infirm. >As to Vietnam/Afganistan, withholding moral judgment on their invasion in the first place, from what very little I know about these historical events, the US operations accomplished their military goals there. Part of their military goals were destruction of the enemy force via sustained bombing campaigns. These goals were never achieved and instead abandoned.

myk9001 3y ago
OK, after reading your and other people's comments explaining ineffectivnes of the bombings, I think you're right, the strategic bombings were ineffective from the military standpoint, wasted resources that could've been put to a more effective use, and inflicted unnecessary suffering on civilians. Point taken. Thank you for engaging in the conversation.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  except, nobody knew till the end of the war what would be effective and what would not. That entire class of aircraft was invented during the war and the tactics were just being developed. And after the war, new classes of aircraft were developed. The idea that universally useful conclusions can be drawn is what is incorrect.
  - myk9001 3y ago
    Sure, I didn't mean to say the allies were bad guys here, not at all. Of course they were doing the best they could. If they didn't win, it's scary to think what kind of world we would be living in now, assuming we would be living at all. > The idea that universally useful conclusions can be drawn is what is incorrect. You're bringing up an interesting point. I'd like to deeply learn history someday, when I retire, maybe...
fsckboy 3y ago
> Industrial countries can and have staffed factories and repair crews with women and the infirm. nobody knows when a war will end. You're making the argument that attrition works

dragonwriter 3y ago

> As to Vietnam/Afganistan, withholding moral judgment on their invasion in the first place, from what very little I know about these historical events, the US operations accomplished their military goals there. They did not. > They later withdrew not due to Vietcong/Taliban’s efforts, but as a result of internal political/societal processes in the US itself. They withdrew because they failed to achieve their military objectives, and the support for continuing to bear the cost of the war without having done so and without confidence that would change in the near future eroded. If they had achieved their military objective, then they would have left sooner (or transitioned to a non-combat footing), having won the war.