3 ms·

> Enshittification is a response to the idea the capitalism optimizes for the consumer I don't think the problems we're seeing are limited to capitalistic nat

by ta8645 3y ago

> Enshittification is a response to the idea the capitalism optimizes for the consumer I don't think the problems we're seeing are limited to capitalistic nations. In any case, my understanding of the philosophical foundation of capitalism, wasn't that it relied on optimization or altruism toward consumers at all. Rather, that it structured incentives so that consumers would benefit from the selfish pursuits of industry. Pointing out the failings of that system is easy. What's difficult is proposing a system that's better, and has a chance of working with human nature as it is, rather than as we wish it to be.

lamontcg 3y ago
> I don't think the problems we're seeing are limited to capitalistic nations. We don't really have any non-capitalist nations. Maybe NK or Cuba, but I don't think that was what you were thinking of. China's economy is certainly driven by market forces, even though it is steered at the top by a dictatorship. > Rather, that it structured incentives so that consumers would benefit from the selfish pursuits of industry. Yes, and enshittification is the result of those incentives not actually being aligned in practice. You seem to be rebutting me by saying the same thing.
- ta8645 3y ago
  I guess the point I was hoping to make, was that blaming "capitalism" isn't helpful, and seems like a very common and counterproductive emerging zeitgeist. It's like blaming organized religion for all the ills of our past. In both cases, it's blaming the system, for human nature itself. You can destroy the system, but you'll still be left with the same forces of humanity, as ever. And we need to be very careful to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Because, capitalism has had some very profound and positive outcomes for humanity. So, by all means, let's improve incentives, and punish corruption where we find it. But let's do it with a scalpel, not a machete -- lest the patient die on the operating table.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    capitalism can be offset by regulation or just taxation. kind of problematic that capitalism is seen as all-or-nothing. then there's nothing that can ever be done about it. i'm starting to see the perceived problem with calling out enshittification now.

by ta8645 3y ago

lamontcg 3y ago

> I don't think the problems we're seeing are limited to capitalistic nations. We don't really have any non-capitalist nations. Maybe NK or Cuba, but I don't think that was what you were thinking of. China's economy is certainly driven by market forces, even though it is steered at the top by a dictatorship. > Rather, that it structured incentives so that consumers would benefit from the selfish pursuits of industry. Yes, and enshittification is the result of those incentives not actually being aligned in practice. You seem to be rebutting me by saying the same thing.

ta8645 3y ago
I guess the point I was hoping to make, was that blaming "capitalism" isn't helpful, and seems like a very common and counterproductive emerging zeitgeist. It's like blaming organized religion for all the ills of our past. In both cases, it's blaming the system, for human nature itself. You can destroy the system, but you'll still be left with the same forces of humanity, as ever. And we need to be very careful to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Because, capitalism has had some very profound and positive outcomes for humanity. So, by all means, let's improve incentives, and punish corruption where we find it. But let's do it with a scalpel, not a machete -- lest the patient die on the operating table.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  capitalism can be offset by regulation or just taxation. kind of problematic that capitalism is seen as all-or-nothing. then there's nothing that can ever be done about it. i'm starting to see the perceived problem with calling out enshittification now.