8 ms·

It's so great seeing my hometown make progress here. Internet options have always been an absolute joke here. I think a lot of people are going to be surprised

It's so great seeing my hometown make progress here. Internet options have always been an absolute joke here. I think a lot of people are going to be surprised in the near future (once the network rolls out to residents) just how cheap fast internet can be. And many people don't realize just how awful Comcast's uplink speeds are (1 Gb down won't save your Zoom calls if you only have <=20 Mbps up). Bountiful is in for a big quality-of-life improvement for internet users (which is basically everyone).

JohnFen 3y ago
It gives me some hope that perhaps my city could do something similar.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+advocate+for+community+fiber https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+advocate+for+communit...
- ZoomerCretin 3y ago
  Don't be too hopeful. You might live in a state that passed law banning municipal internet. https://broadbandnow.com/report/municipal-broadband-roadblocks https://broadbandnow.com/report/municipal-broadband-roadbloc...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - alluro2 3y ago
    Some of these hurdles and requirements are unbelievably ridiculous and so obviously manufactured by the ISPs that I can't believe anyone seriously thinking it has anything to do with taxpayer protection or whatever they're making up... As a non-US citizen, I am so frequently perplexed at how you can, at the same time, have so many smart, hard-working and enterprising people in your country, and so deeply relinquish your freedom, choice and quality of life to either hyper-capitalism, or just idiotic politicians (usually both in connection)...
    - callalex 3y ago
      Once corruption becomes pervasive it’s really hard to get rid of.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
Comcast’s upload is so bad that they don’t even bother advertising a minimum upload bandwidth. Zero mention of upload capacity anywhere. It could be 5Mb/s split over 200 households for all you know.
- fotta 3y ago
  They do publish numbers in a very hidden page: https://www.xfinity.com/networkmanagement https://www.xfinity.com/networkmanagement
  - Hakkin 3y ago
    This page isn't accurate to their new upgraded infrastructure (mid-splits, DOCSIS 4.0) they've gradually been rolling out over the last year or so. Currently only available in certain areas and limited to their rented xFi modems, but it increases speeds to something like 50 down/50 up, 100~900 down/100 up, 1200~2000 down/200 up. Edit: You can see these new speeds listed here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Comcast_Xfinity/wiki/knowledgebase/next-generation-internet https://www.reddit.com/r/Comcast_Xfinity/wiki/knowledgebase/...
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      I don’t trust Comcast and coaxial technology to actually deliver close to that if multiple people in the neighborhood are using. As far as I understand, Comcast splits a small amount of bandwidth between a ton of homes, and then applies QoS based on how much people pay. If you buy the 200Mbps up tier, then you might get 200Mbps up for a little bit as a “burst” speed while they take away from the rest of the neighborhood, but not continuous. If it was comparable to fiber, then they would advertising the upload prominently like fiber ISPs advertise it.
      - kortilla 3y ago
        Fiber is not immune to this problem either. You 48 10gbps homes might share a single 20gbps bonded uplink on a switch.
Aurornis 3y ago
> (1 Gb down won't save your Zoom calls if you only have <=20 Mbps up) 1080p Zoom HD only calls for 3.8Mbps. A 20Mbps up connection should be just fine if it's truly 20Mbps up. I have a couple coworkers on StarLink who can only get 20Mbps up on a good day. Zoom is still fine.
- linsomniac 3y ago
  Can't say specifically for Zoom, but I do know that during the pandemic lockdowns, with me on Google Meet or BlueJeans, and my two kids on Teams for their school, our Xfinity 500Mbps service really struggled, and going to their Gigabit service was needed. ISTR that 500Mbps had 20Mbps up and gigabit had 30Mbps, but I might be off there. Switched to city fiber as soon as it was available and that's been a blessing.
  - Peanuts99 3y ago
    Sounds like your local exchange couldn't cope with the additional traffic rather than your line.
  - mox1 3y ago
    Yea that upgrade caused something else to happen, because like OP said 20mbps of actual bandwidth will support 3-4 people on Zoom,Netflix(non 4k!),gaming just fine. You probably got a different modem, with more channels, that opened up more actual bandwidth for you.
    - linsomniac 3y ago
      That's true, I did upgrade from a 3-4 year old DOCSIS 3.0 Surfboard to a 3.1 Surfboard at the same time. I didn't run any metrics to see what actual bandwidth usage was, I was just waiting for symmetric gig fiber at the time.
      - cavisne 3y ago
        A significant amount of issues that people have with cable internet is the bad modem/router combination the ISPs ship. Outside the US coax based internet is rarer (its fibre or copper) so there isn’t a lot of good modem/routers. So if you can’t get fibre, get an Eero or similar and at least replace your router.
rconti 3y ago
I jumped from comcast (whatever, 200 up/20 down or similiar) to 1Gbps symmetrical 4 years ago and now 10Gbps symmetrical. For less than half of what Comcast charges, with a local ISP (Sonic). It just makes you realize how much money is being funneled directly into shareholder pockets (and to lobbyists and congresscritters and local regulators). And then they brag about throwing $100k at some local schools or something.
- docmars 3y ago
  Gotta make sure those g'ddamned pirates don't have enough bandwidth to seed their beloved cable-network-owned TV shows and movies, at the expense of everyone else who could benefit from faster uplink speeds. ;)
- andrepd 3y ago
  It's almost as if co-operative models of ownership were a vastly superior alternative to joint-stock enterprises :)
  - SR2Z 3y ago
    Sure, for stuff like this where it's a natural monopoly and it makes sense for customers to be stakeholders. But there's a reason why co-ops are rare outside of that: why would people work hard without personal upside?
    - OO000oo 3y ago
      > why would people work hard without personal upside? Define "personal upside" because people work hard all the time absent a path to power, or even material benefit! Come to think of it, why do people have children? Humans are social animals and they are deeply moved to work extremely hard for the sake of love, dignity, and respect alone. Contrary to the nonsense picture you paint, humans only lose touch with such desires in the face of hopelessness to realize them.
      - SR2Z 3y ago
blooalien 3y ago
> "Internet options have always been an absolute joke here." Yep. You can totally thank the totally corrupt and pretty much borderline criminal Comcast and Centurylink (and their bribe-hungry pet politicians) for that.
dheera 3y ago
Meanwhile I live 2km from Google's headquarters and I can't get more than 20mbps up. Part of the reason is I can't afford to own here (nobody can) and property owners don't want to upgrade either. Same with EV charging. Places like this should require property owners who rent out their properties to get with the beat or leave. Property managers who don't install gigabit fiber, EV charging, and induction stoves aren't welcome in this community. This is Silicon Valley, not Utah, yet the Utahans have us one-upped already.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
Who needs 20Mbit/s for Zoom? Are they sending 4K UHD from a pro DSLR? My ISP (cable modem) was around 25Mbit/s down, 5Mbit/s up in the before times, and they've rapidly upgraded speeds a few times since the lockdowns, but mine's been max 20Mbit upstream, and no complaints. I've used every app there is for realtime meetings. https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362023-Zoom-system-requirements-Windows-macOS-Linux#h_d278c327-e03d-4896-b19a-96a8f3c0c69c https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362023-Zoom-sys... Zoom recommended 3.8Mbit/sec. Most third parties recommend 5. 20 is ridiculous, and will allow for 3 of your kids playing Fortnite and Netflix all day while Dad's in meetings.
- casey2 3y ago
  You aren't just at the mercy of your housemates, at peak times 20Mb can drop to 1Mb easily. Advertised speeds are a theoretical maximum.
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    I suppose that my ISP has some really great backbone service in my area, then, because dropouts and "peak hours" mean nothing to me.
- Etheryte 3y ago
  "640K [of memory] ought to be enough for anyone."
- crest 3y ago
  If you want to send a copy of your camera stream to everyone on the call from your device directly for lower latency...
  - ckdarby 3y ago
    That is not how Zoom works today...
    - cannonpalms 3y ago
bdavbdav 3y ago
You sure on that? We have 1000/100. Both WFH using zoom etc, 4 nest cams etc recording. We very rarely break 10-15mbps up.
znpy 3y ago
> 1 Gb down won't save your Zoom calls if you only have <=20 Mbps up while i agree with you, i just want to make everybody notice that almost no video-chatting application let's you lower your video quality or resolution. I might be perfectly fine to stream a 640x480 version of me, it's not mandatory to always stream a 4k version of me. I wish more video chatting application would allow for resolution and quality selection.
- dizhn 3y ago
  There ought to be a way to force the camera hardware to use a lower resolution.
  - rolph 3y ago
    remove/disable the stock camera, use a USB webcam https://helpdesk.kentfieldschools.org/en/support/solutions/articles/66000336733-using-the-usb-webcam-with-zoom https://helpdesk.kentfieldschools.org/en/support/solutions/a... https://athelp.sfsu.edu/hc/en-us/articles/360051867154-Using-a-second-camera-in-Zoom-for-demonstrations https://athelp.sfsu.edu/hc/en-us/articles/360051867154-Using... [disclaimer] i am one of those who destroys integrated OEM cams by default, to replace with the peripheral version.
    - znpy 3y ago
      The link you posted only show how to pick the second camera, not how to force them to a lower resolution though
      - rolph 3y ago
        this may help you if ur windows: How to access webcam settings in Windows [win10] https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-access-webcam-settings/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-access-webcam... How to change the webcam settings on Windows 10 or Windows 11 [2022] https://www.onmsft.com/how-to/change-webcam-settings-windows/ https://www.onmsft.com/how-to/change-webcam-settings-windows...

JohnFen 3y ago

It gives me some hope that perhaps my city could do something similar.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+advocate+for+community+fiber https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+advocate+for+communit...
ZoomerCretin 3y ago
Don't be too hopeful. You might live in a state that passed law banning municipal internet. https://broadbandnow.com/report/municipal-broadband-roadblocks https://broadbandnow.com/report/municipal-broadband-roadbloc...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- alluro2 3y ago
  Some of these hurdles and requirements are unbelievably ridiculous and so obviously manufactured by the ISPs that I can't believe anyone seriously thinking it has anything to do with taxpayer protection or whatever they're making up... As a non-US citizen, I am so frequently perplexed at how you can, at the same time, have so many smart, hard-working and enterprising people in your country, and so deeply relinquish your freedom, choice and quality of life to either hyper-capitalism, or just idiotic politicians (usually both in connection)...
  - callalex 3y ago
    Once corruption becomes pervasive it’s really hard to get rid of.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

Comcast’s upload is so bad that they don’t even bother advertising a minimum upload bandwidth. Zero mention of upload capacity anywhere. It could be 5Mb/s split over 200 households for all you know.

fotta 3y ago
They do publish numbers in a very hidden page: https://www.xfinity.com/networkmanagement https://www.xfinity.com/networkmanagement
- Hakkin 3y ago
  This page isn't accurate to their new upgraded infrastructure (mid-splits, DOCSIS 4.0) they've gradually been rolling out over the last year or so. Currently only available in certain areas and limited to their rented xFi modems, but it increases speeds to something like 50 down/50 up, 100~900 down/100 up, 1200~2000 down/200 up. Edit: You can see these new speeds listed here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Comcast_Xfinity/wiki/knowledgebase/next-generation-internet https://www.reddit.com/r/Comcast_Xfinity/wiki/knowledgebase/...
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    I don’t trust Comcast and coaxial technology to actually deliver close to that if multiple people in the neighborhood are using. As far as I understand, Comcast splits a small amount of bandwidth between a ton of homes, and then applies QoS based on how much people pay. If you buy the 200Mbps up tier, then you might get 200Mbps up for a little bit as a “burst” speed while they take away from the rest of the neighborhood, but not continuous. If it was comparable to fiber, then they would advertising the upload prominently like fiber ISPs advertise it.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      Fiber is not immune to this problem either. You 48 10gbps homes might share a single 20gbps bonded uplink on a switch.

Aurornis 3y ago

> (1 Gb down won't save your Zoom calls if you only have <=20 Mbps up) 1080p Zoom HD only calls for 3.8Mbps. A 20Mbps up connection should be just fine if it's truly 20Mbps up. I have a couple coworkers on StarLink who can only get 20Mbps up on a good day. Zoom is still fine.

linsomniac 3y ago
Can't say specifically for Zoom, but I do know that during the pandemic lockdowns, with me on Google Meet or BlueJeans, and my two kids on Teams for their school, our Xfinity 500Mbps service really struggled, and going to their Gigabit service was needed. ISTR that 500Mbps had 20Mbps up and gigabit had 30Mbps, but I might be off there. Switched to city fiber as soon as it was available and that's been a blessing.
- Peanuts99 3y ago
  Sounds like your local exchange couldn't cope with the additional traffic rather than your line.
- mox1 3y ago
  Yea that upgrade caused something else to happen, because like OP said 20mbps of actual bandwidth will support 3-4 people on Zoom,Netflix(non 4k!),gaming just fine. You probably got a different modem, with more channels, that opened up more actual bandwidth for you.
  - linsomniac 3y ago
    That's true, I did upgrade from a 3-4 year old DOCSIS 3.0 Surfboard to a 3.1 Surfboard at the same time. I didn't run any metrics to see what actual bandwidth usage was, I was just waiting for symmetric gig fiber at the time.
    - cavisne 3y ago
      A significant amount of issues that people have with cable internet is the bad modem/router combination the ISPs ship. Outside the US coax based internet is rarer (its fibre or copper) so there isn’t a lot of good modem/routers. So if you can’t get fibre, get an Eero or similar and at least replace your router.

rconti 3y ago

I jumped from comcast (whatever, 200 up/20 down or similiar) to 1Gbps symmetrical 4 years ago and now 10Gbps symmetrical. For less than half of what Comcast charges, with a local ISP (Sonic). It just makes you realize how much money is being funneled directly into shareholder pockets (and to lobbyists and congresscritters and local regulators). And then they brag about throwing $100k at some local schools or something.

docmars 3y ago
Gotta make sure those g'ddamned pirates don't have enough bandwidth to seed their beloved cable-network-owned TV shows and movies, at the expense of everyone else who could benefit from faster uplink speeds. ;)
andrepd 3y ago
It's almost as if co-operative models of ownership were a vastly superior alternative to joint-stock enterprises :)
- SR2Z 3y ago
  Sure, for stuff like this where it's a natural monopoly and it makes sense for customers to be stakeholders. But there's a reason why co-ops are rare outside of that: why would people work hard without personal upside?
  - OO000oo 3y ago
    > why would people work hard without personal upside? Define "personal upside" because people work hard all the time absent a path to power, or even material benefit! Come to think of it, why do people have children? Humans are social animals and they are deeply moved to work extremely hard for the sake of love, dignity, and respect alone. Contrary to the nonsense picture you paint, humans only lose touch with such desires in the face of hopelessness to realize them.
    - SR2Z 3y ago

blooalien 3y ago

> "Internet options have always been an absolute joke here." Yep. You can totally thank the totally corrupt and pretty much borderline criminal Comcast and Centurylink (and their bribe-hungry pet politicians) for that.

dheera 3y ago

Meanwhile I live 2km from Google's headquarters and I can't get more than 20mbps up. Part of the reason is I can't afford to own here (nobody can) and property owners don't want to upgrade either. Same with EV charging. Places like this should require property owners who rent out their properties to get with the beat or leave. Property managers who don't install gigabit fiber, EV charging, and induction stoves aren't welcome in this community. This is Silicon Valley, not Utah, yet the Utahans have us one-upped already.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

Who needs 20Mbit/s for Zoom? Are they sending 4K UHD from a pro DSLR? My ISP (cable modem) was around 25Mbit/s down, 5Mbit/s up in the before times, and they've rapidly upgraded speeds a few times since the lockdowns, but mine's been max 20Mbit upstream, and no complaints. I've used every app there is for realtime meetings. https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362023-Zoom-system-requirements-Windows-macOS-Linux#h_d278c327-e03d-4896-b19a-96a8f3c0c69c https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362023-Zoom-sys... Zoom recommended 3.8Mbit/sec. Most third parties recommend 5. 20 is ridiculous, and will allow for 3 of your kids playing Fortnite and Netflix all day while Dad's in meetings.

casey2 3y ago
You aren't just at the mercy of your housemates, at peak times 20Mb can drop to 1Mb easily. Advertised speeds are a theoretical maximum.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  I suppose that my ISP has some really great backbone service in my area, then, because dropouts and "peak hours" mean nothing to me.
Etheryte 3y ago
"640K [of memory] ought to be enough for anyone."
crest 3y ago
If you want to send a copy of your camera stream to everyone on the call from your device directly for lower latency...
- ckdarby 3y ago
  That is not how Zoom works today...
  - cannonpalms 3y ago

bdavbdav 3y ago

You sure on that? We have 1000/100. Both WFH using zoom etc, 4 nest cams etc recording. We very rarely break 10-15mbps up.

znpy 3y ago

> 1 Gb down won't save your Zoom calls if you only have <=20 Mbps up while i agree with you, i just want to make everybody notice that almost no video-chatting application let's you lower your video quality or resolution. I might be perfectly fine to stream a 640x480 version of me, it's not mandatory to always stream a 4k version of me. I wish more video chatting application would allow for resolution and quality selection.

dizhn 3y ago
There ought to be a way to force the camera hardware to use a lower resolution.
- rolph 3y ago
  remove/disable the stock camera, use a USB webcam https://helpdesk.kentfieldschools.org/en/support/solutions/articles/66000336733-using-the-usb-webcam-with-zoom https://helpdesk.kentfieldschools.org/en/support/solutions/a... https://athelp.sfsu.edu/hc/en-us/articles/360051867154-Using-a-second-camera-in-Zoom-for-demonstrations https://athelp.sfsu.edu/hc/en-us/articles/360051867154-Using... [disclaimer] i am one of those who destroys integrated OEM cams by default, to replace with the peripheral version.
  - znpy 3y ago
    The link you posted only show how to pick the second camera, not how to force them to a lower resolution though
    - rolph 3y ago
      this may help you if ur windows: How to access webcam settings in Windows [win10] https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-access-webcam-settings/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-access-webcam... How to change the webcam settings on Windows 10 or Windows 11 [2022] https://www.onmsft.com/how-to/change-webcam-settings-windows/ https://www.onmsft.com/how-to/change-webcam-settings-windows...