3 ms·

It'll vary from place to place, but dealing with cash can be quite an expensive exercise. There are costs to depositing it for example. Plus there's a whole lay

It'll vary from place to place, but dealing with cash can be quite an expensive exercise. There are costs to depositing it for example. Plus there's a whole layer of security that happens when you have cash on the premises. If you have employees, cash also makes it much (much) easier for theft, fraud, tax evasion, and so on. It's pretty easy for employees to skim cash if it's coming and going. If the "cash" part of the business is small compared to the rest then it makes (business) sense to simply eliminate that. I agree with you though that it has an unequal effect on different groups of people. And yes, the un-banked (and that typically means the poorer segment of society) tend to be the most affected.

reaperducer 3y ago
And yet millions of businesses have figured out how to make it work for the last thousand years. Cashless advocates are always talking about how "expensive" cash is, but never quantify it. Is handling cash more expensive than credit card fees, for example? If it were, businesses like supermarkets that operate on 1-2% margins wouldn't take cash. But they do. Some near me take cash freely, but charge extra to use debit cards. (For some reason, credit cards incur no fee.) It's like the banks have used fear to institutionalize extortion. "Think of all these horrible things that might possibly happen to your business. Damed shame if one of these exceedingly unlikely things was to happen. Now if you give us 3% off your sales, we can make all that disappear..."
- peterfirefly 3y ago
  Are businesses allowed to defend themselves in all states in the US these days? What will happen to thieves -- will they be released by the courts? will the police even bother to come and collect them if the businesses have caught them?
  - reaperducer 3y ago
    Regardless of what internet-addicted fear mongers might have you believe, the United States has not evolved into a state of lawlessness. A quick look at any local court docket shows that thieves still get caught, prosecuted, and imprisoned. Real life is very different from sensationalist internet blogspam headlines.
    - twiddling 3y ago
      It depends on the value of cash/goods stolen in some states.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    Cash registers are essentially a vault and all an employee has to do to protect the money inside is to close the drawer. Self-checkout machines are even better, because there is no "drawer" and they only spit out money as change, which is never more than the amount you put in.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 3y ago
  I'm going to make a really shitty analogy because I'm bored. Cash = chamber pot / outhouse Electronic payments = modern plumbing People shat for millennia without modern plumbing. Installing and maintaining modern plumbing often requires external expertise who will wish to be paid for their services. In developed countries, the modern plumbing also needs to connect to public infrastructure and comply with a variety of regulations. By choosing modern plumbing over chamber pots, we got rid of some issues pretty much entirely (monetary analogies in parentheses)... - No one has to empty the shit bucket / shovel dirt in the hole (the business does not need to send an employee to the bank with a money bag) - No one has to smell the shit of the previous user/customer (no one has to handle physical objects that may have had an interesting and/or disgusting journey prior [0] [1]) - Massive reduction in fecal-borne illnesses (reduced employee theft, fraud potential) Day to day, I'm sure the outhouse is "cheaper" than toilets. I'll take all the benefits of modern plumbing. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9aM_dT5VMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9aM_dT5VMI [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_currency
  - cuttysnark 3y ago
    I like your analogy, but it excludes a reason I've heard from at least a few candid bar owners in NYC: "Do you know how much money you can hide in these drawers?" Which is to say "do you have any idea how peaceful it is to use the restroom with a locking door and no security cameras?" I'm not saying I agree with or endorse tax evasion—but some are doing it for this very reason, while others simply don't want a 3rd party to their b2c transactions (for whatever reason) and are ready and willing to lose customers who only want to pay in plastic. Some even offer the consolation ATM on-premises.
    - sjsdaiuasgdia 3y ago
      Forgive me if I don't exactly take "I can't commit crime as easily" as a good justification for anything. If you don't like the tax law, work on getting it changed or move your business somewhere where the taxes are more to your liking. Oh, being in NYC gives you access to a massive market you wouldn't have if you were in a lower tax environment? A market that continues to exist thanks to infrastructure funded via tax revenue? Funny how that works...

reaperducer 3y ago

And yet millions of businesses have figured out how to make it work for the last thousand years. Cashless advocates are always talking about how "expensive" cash is, but never quantify it. Is handling cash more expensive than credit card fees, for example? If it were, businesses like supermarkets that operate on 1-2% margins wouldn't take cash. But they do. Some near me take cash freely, but charge extra to use debit cards. (For some reason, credit cards incur no fee.) It's like the banks have used fear to institutionalize extortion. "Think of all these horrible things that might possibly happen to your business. Damed shame if one of these exceedingly unlikely things was to happen. Now if you give us 3% off your sales, we can make all that disappear..."

peterfirefly 3y ago
Are businesses allowed to defend themselves in all states in the US these days? What will happen to thieves -- will they be released by the courts? will the police even bother to come and collect them if the businesses have caught them?
- reaperducer 3y ago
  Regardless of what internet-addicted fear mongers might have you believe, the United States has not evolved into a state of lawlessness. A quick look at any local court docket shows that thieves still get caught, prosecuted, and imprisoned. Real life is very different from sensationalist internet blogspam headlines.
  - twiddling 3y ago
    It depends on the value of cash/goods stolen in some states.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  Cash registers are essentially a vault and all an employee has to do to protect the money inside is to close the drawer. Self-checkout machines are even better, because there is no "drawer" and they only spit out money as change, which is never more than the amount you put in.
sjsdaiuasgdia 3y ago
I'm going to make a really shitty analogy because I'm bored. Cash = chamber pot / outhouse Electronic payments = modern plumbing People shat for millennia without modern plumbing. Installing and maintaining modern plumbing often requires external expertise who will wish to be paid for their services. In developed countries, the modern plumbing also needs to connect to public infrastructure and comply with a variety of regulations. By choosing modern plumbing over chamber pots, we got rid of some issues pretty much entirely (monetary analogies in parentheses)... - No one has to empty the shit bucket / shovel dirt in the hole (the business does not need to send an employee to the bank with a money bag) - No one has to smell the shit of the previous user/customer (no one has to handle physical objects that may have had an interesting and/or disgusting journey prior [0] [1]) - Massive reduction in fecal-borne illnesses (reduced employee theft, fraud potential) Day to day, I'm sure the outhouse is "cheaper" than toilets. I'll take all the benefits of modern plumbing. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9aM_dT5VMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9aM_dT5VMI [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_currency
- cuttysnark 3y ago
  I like your analogy, but it excludes a reason I've heard from at least a few candid bar owners in NYC: "Do you know how much money you can hide in these drawers?" Which is to say "do you have any idea how peaceful it is to use the restroom with a locking door and no security cameras?" I'm not saying I agree with or endorse tax evasion—but some are doing it for this very reason, while others simply don't want a 3rd party to their b2c transactions (for whatever reason) and are ready and willing to lose customers who only want to pay in plastic. Some even offer the consolation ATM on-premises.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 3y ago
    Forgive me if I don't exactly take "I can't commit crime as easily" as a good justification for anything. If you don't like the tax law, work on getting it changed or move your business somewhere where the taxes are more to your liking. Oh, being in NYC gives you access to a massive market you wouldn't have if you were in a lower tax environment? A market that continues to exist thanks to infrastructure funded via tax revenue? Funny how that works...