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There’s a difference between the population that worked remotely before and after Covid. The population before Covid were often highly experienced, disciplined

There’s a difference between the population that worked remotely before and after Covid. The population before Covid were often highly experienced, disciplined, and proven workers. The population after Covid, was well, everyone who worked with a laptop. Not everyone is cut for working remotely. In addition, there’s a difference between 1 out 20 people working remotely full time and 20 out of 20.

malfist 3y ago
I've worked remotely for about 9 years now. At the start of the pandemic I'd argue there's a wide gulf between those who knew how to work remotely because they've done it for years, and those forced into it and still figuring it out. We spent 3 years in pandemic mode working from home for everyone. We've all figured it out by now. Go into the office if you'd like, but don't force everyone back to it.
- repeekad 3y ago
  And between those who don’t want remote work. Who enjoy building real relationships with people and brain storming ideas on a whiteboard. Remote work feels like contracting, and when everyone is a contractor is it really a cohesive company?
  - esafak 3y ago
    You need to build rituals to recapture that cohesion; do things online or offline that are not just about work. It is a good idea even if your company is not remote.
    - AntiRemote 3y ago
      [dead]
- tpmoney 3y ago
  The problem is we haven’t all figured it out. I have some coworkers who absolutely need to be in the office. Unfortunately they don’t have the self awareness to realize that, and they heavily believe the only benefit to in office work is making middle management happy. They’re good developers, but they have a bad habit of getting sucked into rabbit holes. Left to their own devices, they’re highly likely to disappear for hours and come back with an architecture astronauts dream that technically does what they’ve been assigned but also does it in ${newest language or framework} with ${unsupported dependency} and insufficient tooling to actually deploy it into production. When they’re in the office 3 things work to prevent that: 1) yes they are supervised. More senior devs and also management can keep an eye on them 2) They’re more likely to just randomly ask a question or ponder aloud than they are to write something in slack, so it’s more likely someone can catch them going off the rails and re-direct 3) They’re more plugged into what everyone else is doing, so more likely to keep “coming up for air” and keeping their mind focused on the main goal and not the rabbit hole. Again, these are perfectly fine junior devs with perfectly fine skills, and even their tendency to get enthusiastically lost is just more junior dev stuff. But they don’t know how to work remotely, they’re not self aware enough to know they need to learn, they don’t take the feedback on it very well either (again see “it’s only because management wants butts in seats”) So the options for this are mandate them to the office or eventually fire them for being more dead weight remotely than they’re worth.
alemanek 3y ago
I have worked remotely for 7 years and in a few different companies in that time. In my experience the companies that struggle with remote work are the ones the manage via attendance. One company drove me insane with random “Hows it going” messages throughout the day so I just left for another company and let them know why on the way out. Managers that have enough domain expertise to manage via outcomes however thrive in remote environments. But, this is harder to do than taking headcount. Remote working environments require different approaches than in person or hybrid. Change is hard and all that.
- paulcole 3y ago
  > One company drove me insane with random “Hows it going” messages throughout the day so I just left for another company and let them know why on the way out. But this is ideal right? Their culture is asking "how's it going" throughout the day and it's not a culture you wanted to be part of so you left. Asking "how's it going?" throughout the day isn't objectively good or bad – it's just not for everyone.
  - antisthenes 3y ago
    Asking "how it's going?" without following up about a specific task is objectively bad.
    - paulcole 3y ago
      No it isn’t. You may not like it, but the idea that’s objectively bad is your opinion not a fact. What’s wrong with a company’s employees deciding they like checking in with each other and not having it tied to a specific task?
      - liveoneggs 3y ago
        it depends on who is asking, of course
        3y ago
ricardo81 3y ago
>20 out of 20. tbf, if you meant the full workforce it's never going to be 100%, there's so many jobs that require physical presence out of necessity. There's maybe some jobs where you could also argue it's required. Emergency surgery, police, paramedics, electricity grid maintenance, plenty jobs where there's simply no WFH angle. I'd totally agree that personality types would also clash from WFH, so it's definitely not the definitive solution, but it works for a lot of people.

malfist 3y ago

I've worked remotely for about 9 years now. At the start of the pandemic I'd argue there's a wide gulf between those who knew how to work remotely because they've done it for years, and those forced into it and still figuring it out. We spent 3 years in pandemic mode working from home for everyone. We've all figured it out by now. Go into the office if you'd like, but don't force everyone back to it.

repeekad 3y ago
And between those who don’t want remote work. Who enjoy building real relationships with people and brain storming ideas on a whiteboard. Remote work feels like contracting, and when everyone is a contractor is it really a cohesive company?
- esafak 3y ago
  You need to build rituals to recapture that cohesion; do things online or offline that are not just about work. It is a good idea even if your company is not remote.
  - AntiRemote 3y ago
    [dead]
tpmoney 3y ago
The problem is we haven’t all figured it out. I have some coworkers who absolutely need to be in the office. Unfortunately they don’t have the self awareness to realize that, and they heavily believe the only benefit to in office work is making middle management happy. They’re good developers, but they have a bad habit of getting sucked into rabbit holes. Left to their own devices, they’re highly likely to disappear for hours and come back with an architecture astronauts dream that technically does what they’ve been assigned but also does it in ${newest language or framework} with ${unsupported dependency} and insufficient tooling to actually deploy it into production. When they’re in the office 3 things work to prevent that: 1) yes they are supervised. More senior devs and also management can keep an eye on them 2) They’re more likely to just randomly ask a question or ponder aloud than they are to write something in slack, so it’s more likely someone can catch them going off the rails and re-direct 3) They’re more plugged into what everyone else is doing, so more likely to keep “coming up for air” and keeping their mind focused on the main goal and not the rabbit hole. Again, these are perfectly fine junior devs with perfectly fine skills, and even their tendency to get enthusiastically lost is just more junior dev stuff. But they don’t know how to work remotely, they’re not self aware enough to know they need to learn, they don’t take the feedback on it very well either (again see “it’s only because management wants butts in seats”) So the options for this are mandate them to the office or eventually fire them for being more dead weight remotely than they’re worth.

alemanek 3y ago

I have worked remotely for 7 years and in a few different companies in that time. In my experience the companies that struggle with remote work are the ones the manage via attendance. One company drove me insane with random “Hows it going” messages throughout the day so I just left for another company and let them know why on the way out. Managers that have enough domain expertise to manage via outcomes however thrive in remote environments. But, this is harder to do than taking headcount. Remote working environments require different approaches than in person or hybrid. Change is hard and all that.

paulcole 3y ago
> One company drove me insane with random “Hows it going” messages throughout the day so I just left for another company and let them know why on the way out. But this is ideal right? Their culture is asking "how's it going" throughout the day and it's not a culture you wanted to be part of so you left. Asking "how's it going?" throughout the day isn't objectively good or bad – it's just not for everyone.
- antisthenes 3y ago
  Asking "how it's going?" without following up about a specific task is objectively bad.
  - paulcole 3y ago
    No it isn’t. You may not like it, but the idea that’s objectively bad is your opinion not a fact. What’s wrong with a company’s employees deciding they like checking in with each other and not having it tied to a specific task?
    - liveoneggs 3y ago
      it depends on who is asking, of course
      - 3y ago

ricardo81 3y ago

>20 out of 20. tbf, if you meant the full workforce it's never going to be 100%, there's so many jobs that require physical presence out of necessity. There's maybe some jobs where you could also argue it's required. Emergency surgery, police, paramedics, electricity grid maintenance, plenty jobs where there's simply no WFH angle. I'd totally agree that personality types would also clash from WFH, so it's definitely not the definitive solution, but it works for a lot of people.