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>How did mobile phones, a huge market with huge investment, avoid “enshittification”? They didn’t. They spy on you more and more to extract more value from you

>How did mobile phones, a huge market with huge investment, avoid “enshittification”? They didn’t. They spy on you more and more to extract more value from you after purchase. They have non-replaceable batteries and screens, which means you can’t service them easily. They are worse at being phones than plastic Nokias 20 years ago. Companies are incentivized to create apps which are trapped in the phone’s walled gardens rather than creating webpages which anyone can access. The list goes on.

TylerE 3y ago
This is the sort of missing the forest trees people are talking about. People don’t care about replaceable batteries and voice calls. They want the magic pocket oracle to just work with a minimum of faffing about. You have to reach people on what THEY care about, not preach to them about what they should care about. (And yes, I’m self-aware enough to see the inherent irony of this comment.)
- Karunamon 3y ago
  Marketing and industry trends play a part in this. There is a big difference between "nobody cares about X at all" and "nobody cares about X enough, in isolation, to base their entire purchasing decision on it" For instance, Apple tends to drive how mobile phones look and what external features they have even if their changes are objective steps backwards in functionality. People generally liked headphone jacks, but not enough to cut themselves off from flagship devices. There is no way to make an apples-to-apples comparison since usually there are never two devices whose literal only difference is the specific feature under discussion.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    The liked headphone jacks. Now they like IP68 and Bluetooth.
    - Karunamon 3y ago
      These are not mutually exclusive.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  > They want the magic also won’t pocket oracle to just work What was this supposed to say?
crazygringo 3y ago
Pretty sure my iPhone isn't spying on me so Apple can extract more value. And the first-gen iPhone didn't have a replaceable battery or screen either. As far as I can tell, iPhones have only gotten better. And ever since Apple introduced the SE, they've become more affordable as well. It's way better at being a phone than an old Nokia as well -- the convenience and sound quality of wireless earbuds, using higher-quality audio and background noise removal, is really something.
- flyinghamster 3y ago
  I sometimes use my Sony noise-cancelling headphones for calls, and the sound quality is amazing. BUT: Bluetooth lag makes music-making apps unworkable.
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    Well sure, that's what Lightning port adapters are for. Which allow you to connect both traditional analog devices as well as USB digital audio.
orbz 3y ago
I miss the days where I could forget to charge my plastic nokia for 5 days, drop it out a 3rd story window onto concrete and have it run over by a car and there _might_ be a scratch on it while I T9'd out a message without looking. On the other hand I can wear a watch that could out-compete a desktop computer I had in the 90's.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  You can get an original, working Nokia 3310 for tens of dollars

TylerE 3y ago

This is the sort of missing the forest trees people are talking about. People don’t care about replaceable batteries and voice calls. They want the magic pocket oracle to just work with a minimum of faffing about. You have to reach people on what THEY care about, not preach to them about what they should care about. (And yes, I’m self-aware enough to see the inherent irony of this comment.)

Karunamon 3y ago
Marketing and industry trends play a part in this. There is a big difference between "nobody cares about X at all" and "nobody cares about X enough, in isolation, to base their entire purchasing decision on it" For instance, Apple tends to drive how mobile phones look and what external features they have even if their changes are objective steps backwards in functionality. People generally liked headphone jacks, but not enough to cut themselves off from flagship devices. There is no way to make an apples-to-apples comparison since usually there are never two devices whose literal only difference is the specific feature under discussion.
- TylerE 3y ago
  The liked headphone jacks. Now they like IP68 and Bluetooth.
  - Karunamon 3y ago
    These are not mutually exclusive.
thaumasiotes 3y ago
> They want the magic also won’t pocket oracle to just work What was this supposed to say?

crazygringo 3y ago

Pretty sure my iPhone isn't spying on me so Apple can extract more value. And the first-gen iPhone didn't have a replaceable battery or screen either. As far as I can tell, iPhones have only gotten better. And ever since Apple introduced the SE, they've become more affordable as well. It's way better at being a phone than an old Nokia as well -- the convenience and sound quality of wireless earbuds, using higher-quality audio and background noise removal, is really something.

flyinghamster 3y ago
I sometimes use my Sony noise-cancelling headphones for calls, and the sound quality is amazing. BUT: Bluetooth lag makes music-making apps unworkable.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  Well sure, that's what Lightning port adapters are for. Which allow you to connect both traditional analog devices as well as USB digital audio.

orbz 3y ago

I miss the days where I could forget to charge my plastic nokia for 5 days, drop it out a 3rd story window onto concrete and have it run over by a car and there _might_ be a scratch on it while I T9'd out a message without looking. On the other hand I can wear a watch that could out-compete a desktop computer I had in the 90's.

ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
You can get an original, working Nokia 3310 for tens of dollars