5 ms·

rent seeking sounds benign now?!

horsawlarway 3y ago
Rent seeking by itself no longer seems to be enough to garner any sort of regulatory action in the US. Which is not especially new - rent seeking in general is explicitly not illegal. But historically, it was viewed as a general negative for society, and something to be addressed through policy. Now it seems to be "business as usual" in the race to accumulate as much wealth as possible, consequences to society at large be damned.
ModernMech 3y ago
Yes, as more and more people place themselves in a position to collect rent, they make a million excuses as to why they rent they collect is okay.
FrustratedMonky 3y ago
Guess that is the problem. Seems people want a nicer word than "Enshittification". Something more polite. But then the 'nicer' word like 'rent seeking', half the people don't recognize that it is bad, or what it is. So think that is the argument that "Enshittification" is a good description, because people instantly get what it means, Definition->'something is happening and it is taking something good and turning it into shit'
- js8 3y ago
  > because people instantly get what it means I think that's an illusion. Proponents of capitalism and privatisation will argue that things go bad because of the goverment policy, not because of rent seeking and privatization. You really can't sum up history in a single word, it's prone to disinterpretation.
  - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    So? Stop using language? All words can be miss-interpreted. Why does this particular word have to "Sum up History"?? I think you are correct, that left and right think that 'shit' is happening and it is because of the other side. One blames Government, and One blames Capitalism, thought I'd say both are wrong, or over-simplified. But both agree things are 'shit'. So guess we need even finer grained definitions of 'shit'. like: "EnCapitaShitification" and "EnGoveShitification"
    - js8 3y ago
      First of all, I am arguing against the notion that it will "be immediately clear" from the word. But also, I don't think it is a new phenomenon. Capitalism always seeks to extract all resources that are available to it; that's the systemic nature of it. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes (as when it does to human attention, and other stuff, in general when it happens in the extreme) it's a bad thing. Kinda like with fire. It's akin to conning a new word for forest fires caused by climate change, which would connect the dots with climate. People who haven't connected the dots already are unlikely to do so with the new word either.
      - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
        Ah. Yes. I get what you are saying. That is good point. But now, I'm trying to think of the word we already have for this? Just using the word "Capitalisms" is too broad, really encapsulates too much. What is the word for the end state of "Capitalism", or what it drives towards? If you have ever read Moloch By Scott Alexander, I think that is the same 'jist' of what we are trying to get at with "enshitification". But at the moment, I am having hard time thinking of an existing word that already means this.
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
I didn't say that it was benign but that it sounds benign.
- mcphage 3y ago
  "Waterboarding at Guantanamo Bay sounds awesome if you don't know what any of those words mean"
hgsgm 3y ago
Like a lot of terms, "economic rent" is different from colloquial "rent". Colloquial rent is a neutral concept.

Rent seeking by itself no longer seems to be enough to garner any sort of regulatory action in the US. Which is not especially new - rent seeking in general is explicitly not illegal. But historically, it was viewed as a general negative for society, and something to be addressed through policy. Now it seems to be "business as usual" in the race to accumulate as much wealth as possible, consequences to society at large be damned.

ModernMech 3y ago

Yes, as more and more people place themselves in a position to collect rent, they make a million excuses as to why they rent they collect is okay.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago

Guess that is the problem. Seems people want a nicer word than "Enshittification". Something more polite. But then the 'nicer' word like 'rent seeking', half the people don't recognize that it is bad, or what it is. So think that is the argument that "Enshittification" is a good description, because people instantly get what it means, Definition->'something is happening and it is taking something good and turning it into shit'

js8 3y ago
> because people instantly get what it means I think that's an illusion. Proponents of capitalism and privatisation will argue that things go bad because of the goverment policy, not because of rent seeking and privatization. You really can't sum up history in a single word, it's prone to disinterpretation.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  So? Stop using language? All words can be miss-interpreted. Why does this particular word have to "Sum up History"?? I think you are correct, that left and right think that 'shit' is happening and it is because of the other side. One blames Government, and One blames Capitalism, thought I'd say both are wrong, or over-simplified. But both agree things are 'shit'. So guess we need even finer grained definitions of 'shit'. like: "EnCapitaShitification" and "EnGoveShitification"
  - js8 3y ago
    First of all, I am arguing against the notion that it will "be immediately clear" from the word. But also, I don't think it is a new phenomenon. Capitalism always seeks to extract all resources that are available to it; that's the systemic nature of it. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes (as when it does to human attention, and other stuff, in general when it happens in the extreme) it's a bad thing. Kinda like with fire. It's akin to conning a new word for forest fires caused by climate change, which would connect the dots with climate. People who haven't connected the dots already are unlikely to do so with the new word either.
    - FrustratedMonky 3y ago
      Ah. Yes. I get what you are saying. That is good point. But now, I'm trying to think of the word we already have for this? Just using the word "Capitalisms" is too broad, really encapsulates too much. What is the word for the end state of "Capitalism", or what it drives towards? If you have ever read Moloch By Scott Alexander, I think that is the same 'jist' of what we are trying to get at with "enshitification". But at the moment, I am having hard time thinking of an existing word that already means this.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

I didn't say that it was benign but that it sounds benign.

mcphage 3y ago
"Waterboarding at Guantanamo Bay sounds awesome if you don't know what any of those words mean"

hgsgm 3y ago

Like a lot of terms, "economic rent" is different from colloquial "rent". Colloquial rent is a neutral concept.