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Many libraries in the US come from the hypercapitalist era of robber barons. They predate the word "capitalism". They predate the idea that there could even exi

Many libraries in the US come from the hypercapitalist era of robber barons. They predate the word "capitalism". They predate the idea that there could even exist something other than capitalism. People generally prefer free market solutions to problems because commons solutions like public libraries only work when there is sufficient social cohesion. Libraries work if people respect them. They do not work if people treat them like homeless shelters. Public libraries will disappear if their management continues to be dominated by far-left ideologues who prioritise being "inclusive" over having a safe, enjoyable and quiet environment.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
Libraries are a valuable resource to the homeless and those who have nowhere else to go. If such people are respectful and treat the library as a library, then nobody will begrudge them an hour's nap or their refuge from midday heat while they read books or use a computer. Homeless people can even sign up for library cards and use them, almost as if they were real patrons. Of course it becomes known that a library doesn't mind the patronage of the homeless and disenfranchised, then people begin to abuse the hospitality. People try to shower and shave and brush their teeth in the restrooms. People drag in half a shopping cart's worth of bags and personal belongings, and camp out with a pillow and blanket. People deface or steal books, DVDs, and other materials. People have mental health crises in front of the other staff and patrons. Of course these disruptions are not the sole purview of the homeless. But they cause security to be tightened, and big signs that prohibit lots of stuff are posted, and the collection dwindles to whatever nobody wanted to steal. Man, I've really felt the pinch there. COVID-19 did libraries a favor in this regard, because they had a plausible excuse to flush anyone and everyone out of the building and off the premises, and do a great reset of the whole situation.
n6h6 3y ago
Capitalism is a relatively recent invention, so no. It's disappointing that there are people who think that "far-left ideologues" have anything to do with the decline of public libraries.
- memefrog 3y ago
  The word "capitalism" is. The word only needed to be created when there was something to contrast it to. We don't have a word for "the system wherein individuals are considered to exist" because nobody has seriously suggested we don't exist. Similarly there was no word for "the economic system where buyers and sellers of goods and services _aren't_ forbidden from buying and selling those goods and services except from and to the state" until communists turned up and proposed a system with that restriction. We didnt need a word for "an economy where commerce is permissible", in other words, until someone suggested it might be forbidden.
  - Anthony-G 3y ago
    > The word only needed to be created when there was something to contrast it to. The term capitalism started to be used during the Enlightment in order to describe the new economic system that replaced the one that immediately preceded it, often loosely referred to as feudalism, a system where large land-owners held all the economic power and effectively ruled the lives of their serfs/tenants, and didn’t feel the need to invest their excess wealth into improving the means of production to increase productivity. The merchants, traders and crafts-people had little to no power under this system – at least not until they had their own revolutions.
    - memefrog 3y ago
      The term 'capitalism' does not predate the 19th century according to the Oxford English Dictionary.
hathchip 3y ago
> Many libraries in the US come from the hypercapitalist era of robber barons. They predate the word "capitalism". They predate the idea that there could even exist something other than capitalism. It is very, very easy to check that this isn't true. Capitalism was described and critiqued as such since the mid-1800s. The Communist Manifesto, published in 1848, is certainly no older than "the idea that there could even exist something other than capitalism". Very few public libraries in the US are older than this, and the era of 'robber barons' took place after this (1860 or 1870 to 1900 or 1910).
- memefrog 3y ago
  The issue is not when MOST public libraries were established but when "public libraries", as a concept, was established. So-called "capitalism" (a purely propagandistic word) has existed as long as there have existed pairs of persons A and B such that A has some X and B has some Y and A desires Y more than X and B desires X more than Y. The natural thing to do here is exchange X and Y, satisfying both A and B. We didnt need a name for "the economic system where trade is allowed" until a few insane people suggested that all trade should go through a government middleman and lack of consent should be ignored.
  - hathchip 3y ago
    You obviously don't know what you are talking about on any level whatsoever.
    - memefrog 3y ago
      Okay Mr 10 day old account. Keep promoting socialism. You need the social credits to buy food in China now, right?
kmeisthax 3y ago
We're talking about the functionality of their ebook service. There is no way in hell homeless people sleeping in the library makes the ebook service worse. Please, show me the press release or e-mail where OverDrive said "we're removing title wishlist notifications and selling ourselves to a private capital firm because you're a homeless shelter, not a library." Also, the "free market solution" would have been to just let the libraries offer ebooks on their site. Digital distribution gutted libraries' ability to provide their core service, because now they need permission and licensing to do so. Homeless people using libraries as makeshift shelters isn't new, you just never noticed it back when everyone was using libraries.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

Libraries are a valuable resource to the homeless and those who have nowhere else to go. If such people are respectful and treat the library as a library, then nobody will begrudge them an hour's nap or their refuge from midday heat while they read books or use a computer. Homeless people can even sign up for library cards and use them, almost as if they were real patrons. Of course it becomes known that a library doesn't mind the patronage of the homeless and disenfranchised, then people begin to abuse the hospitality. People try to shower and shave and brush their teeth in the restrooms. People drag in half a shopping cart's worth of bags and personal belongings, and camp out with a pillow and blanket. People deface or steal books, DVDs, and other materials. People have mental health crises in front of the other staff and patrons. Of course these disruptions are not the sole purview of the homeless. But they cause security to be tightened, and big signs that prohibit lots of stuff are posted, and the collection dwindles to whatever nobody wanted to steal. Man, I've really felt the pinch there. COVID-19 did libraries a favor in this regard, because they had a plausible excuse to flush anyone and everyone out of the building and off the premises, and do a great reset of the whole situation.

n6h6 3y ago

Capitalism is a relatively recent invention, so no. It's disappointing that there are people who think that "far-left ideologues" have anything to do with the decline of public libraries.

memefrog 3y ago
The word "capitalism" is. The word only needed to be created when there was something to contrast it to. We don't have a word for "the system wherein individuals are considered to exist" because nobody has seriously suggested we don't exist. Similarly there was no word for "the economic system where buyers and sellers of goods and services _aren't_ forbidden from buying and selling those goods and services except from and to the state" until communists turned up and proposed a system with that restriction. We didnt need a word for "an economy where commerce is permissible", in other words, until someone suggested it might be forbidden.
- Anthony-G 3y ago
  > The word only needed to be created when there was something to contrast it to. The term capitalism started to be used during the Enlightment in order to describe the new economic system that replaced the one that immediately preceded it, often loosely referred to as feudalism, a system where large land-owners held all the economic power and effectively ruled the lives of their serfs/tenants, and didn’t feel the need to invest their excess wealth into improving the means of production to increase productivity. The merchants, traders and crafts-people had little to no power under this system – at least not until they had their own revolutions.
  - memefrog 3y ago
    The term 'capitalism' does not predate the 19th century according to the Oxford English Dictionary.

hathchip 3y ago

> Many libraries in the US come from the hypercapitalist era of robber barons. They predate the word "capitalism". They predate the idea that there could even exist something other than capitalism. It is very, very easy to check that this isn't true. Capitalism was described and critiqued as such since the mid-1800s. The Communist Manifesto, published in 1848, is certainly no older than "the idea that there could even exist something other than capitalism". Very few public libraries in the US are older than this, and the era of 'robber barons' took place after this (1860 or 1870 to 1900 or 1910).

memefrog 3y ago
The issue is not when MOST public libraries were established but when "public libraries", as a concept, was established. So-called "capitalism" (a purely propagandistic word) has existed as long as there have existed pairs of persons A and B such that A has some X and B has some Y and A desires Y more than X and B desires X more than Y. The natural thing to do here is exchange X and Y, satisfying both A and B. We didnt need a name for "the economic system where trade is allowed" until a few insane people suggested that all trade should go through a government middleman and lack of consent should be ignored.
- hathchip 3y ago
  You obviously don't know what you are talking about on any level whatsoever.
  - memefrog 3y ago
    Okay Mr 10 day old account. Keep promoting socialism. You need the social credits to buy food in China now, right?

kmeisthax 3y ago

We're talking about the functionality of their ebook service. There is no way in hell homeless people sleeping in the library makes the ebook service worse. Please, show me the press release or e-mail where OverDrive said "we're removing title wishlist notifications and selling ourselves to a private capital firm because you're a homeless shelter, not a library." Also, the "free market solution" would have been to just let the libraries offer ebooks on their site. Digital distribution gutted libraries' ability to provide their core service, because now they need permission and licensing to do so. Homeless people using libraries as makeshift shelters isn't new, you just never noticed it back when everyone was using libraries.