4 ms·

Finding a partner isn't actually that hard: 1. Don't be an ass, be kind and respect people 2. Be polite, accept a no as an answer 3. Accept the universe is n

by hef19898 3y ago

Finding a partner isn't actually that hard: 1. Don't be an ass, be kind and respect people 2. Be polite, accept a no as an answer 3. Accept the universe is not owing you anything, let alone an initimate relationship 4. Be open minded 5. Accept yourself as you are and others as they are It really comes down to number one, don't be an ass.

jiggawatts 3y ago
The irony is that you've just said more-or-less the opposite of what is actually the case. This is the equivalent of not teaching chemistry, and then someone who's dabbled in alchemy piping up and saying: "Why bother with all that, it's not that hard, just combine earth and water!" The reality is that the "assholes" get the hottest women. I put that in quotes because that's the superficial impression, not a nuanced statement. It's valid though. There are women who get married to murderers on death row. These are sexy, beautiful women. Meanwhile "nice guys" are single into their thirties and complaining about it on Reddit. Even a casual perusal of either anthropology or evolutionary biology should dissuade you from any such silly Disney(tm) approved notions. Women maximise their reproductive success by partnering with killers. Hunters that are capable of bringing home the bacon, but just short of being psychopaths and killing her and her children. A little bit of violence is acceptable. Being "nice" and "polite" doesn't work. As a random set of examples, people here on HN will generally acknowledge either Trump and/or Elon as being unmitigated asses, right? They've both had multiple wives and a bunch of kids. What does that tell you? Are you going to do chemistry, or alchemy? Magic, or science? Are you getting dating advice from Women's Weekly, or Nature?
- hef19898 3y ago
  Just take it to Reddit. Man, this discussion turn into a cess pit of frustrated, insecure males venting... No wonder those persons have trouble finding partners...
- fsociety 3y ago
  Being a “nice guy” does not work. Having confidence, while valuing and respecting women (as they would you) absolutely does.
  - harimau777 3y ago
    What about the people who don't have confidence? They should just kill themselves?
    - hef19898 3y ago
      No, why? You have two choices so. Either you try to be a better person, try to build that confidence. Or continue pretending to be a victim and whine about your lot in life. And no, a stelar career, shit ton of money, fame and drop dead looks are not what I meam by that.
      - harimau777 3y ago
        Confidence and social competence aren't a switch that someone can flip just by trying harder. There's tons of men who have spent years trying to become a better person (therapy, self help, communications courses, education, constructive hobbies, etc.) and have nothing to show for it.
        hef19898 3y ago
        Coming back to my original post, and adding some more details. Point was not being an ass. That means basically two things: Not actively treating people like shit (that can be pretended, something all those pick up artists scum bags do and sell) and unintentionally doing it. The latter is the harder bit, as it involves actually caring and listening to other people. When in company, making it all about yourself is not necessarily being an ass (it can be so), but rather egoistical and unpleasant for the other person. Having years of therapy (!), and nothing to show for, hints, IMHO, at the second issue. No amount of therapy and course work can make you care about someone else as much as you do about yourself, IMHO, because therapy is for you. Ad my grandmother aslways said: every pot has its cover (very bad translation). And she was right. The trick is to not force it, be open, let stuff happen and just not be an ass. Or a self-victimizing whiner, as that can be kind of the opposite end of toxic masculinity and is equally unsexy. But even then, there is someone special out there. As soon as you make a relationship as much about the other person as you do about yourself, are sincere about that, well, a lot of surprising things can happen. Also, you are never done becoming a better human being. Especially since for ech step forward, you will take a couple back at times.
- OGWhales 3y ago
  > The reality is that the "assholes" get the hottest women. I put that in quotes because that's the superficial impression, not a nuanced statement. It's valid though. There are women who get married to murderers on death row. These are sexy, beautiful women. Meanwhile "nice guys" are single into their thirties and complaining about it on Reddit. I don’t find that to be the reality. Most likely, the “nice guy” has a number of qualities that are off-putting to potential partners and the “asshole” is only perceived as such by the “nice guy”. I don’t mean to say assholes don’t find partners, they do, but the general perception of “the asshole always gets the girl” seems more like a sophomoric projection of jealously than reality. > Being "nice" and "polite" doesn't work. As a random set of examples, people here on HN will generally acknowledge either Trump and/or Elon as being unmitigated asses, right? They've both had multiple wives and a bunch of kids. > What does that tell you? Not much… I mean it’s not news that rich and powerful men have an easy time finding people. But tbh, all walks of life have partners. Tons of nice, polite people have partners, yet you ignore those examples for some reason and claim that “doesn’t work”. I suspect the root issue is a jealously/confusion/frustration that an ass like Trump can find women but you have yet to have the same luck. The reality is that it’s possible for pretty much anyone to find a partner and it doesn’t mean much. Being a likable person will give you the best chance, regardless of how many assholes happen to find people. Perhaps the only useful lesson from observing assholes having success is that assholes tend to have confidence and don’t care what others think, making them more likely to put themselves in a position to find a partner without fear of rejection.
ninkendo 3y ago
You don't think attractiveness plays a role at all? Like, doesn't even make your list? Your list is the kind of thing an attractive (or at least, not hideously unattractive) person would say while being completely oblivious to the issues a good chunk of the population face.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Attractiveness is a) subjective and b) nothing one can influence (unless you talk about hardcore surgery). My points are those people have a lot more agency over.
  - ninkendo 3y ago
    Sure, those points people have agency over. But the error in reasoning happens when you say those points add up to “Finding a partner isn't actually that hard”. You’re forgetting that there are things people have no agency over, which makes finding a partner very hard indeed.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      No, it actually is not. It really isn't. If you aim for either Margot Robbie or Ryan Gossling you are making it harder yourself. Most Incels so maybe celibate, but it is, considering how they see and treat women to how they see the world and society, totally voluntarily and self inflicted. Also, whining about how hard your life is, how you are not able to achieve your goals because of things outside of your control is a huge turn off, regardless of how your face or body looks like.
      - harimau777 3y ago
        Just because something isn't difficult for you doesn't mean it isn't extraordinarily difficult for others. If someone's neurodivergent, was raised in a sheltered environment, or just isn't good at social interaction, then that can often be a nearly insurmountable barrier.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
roenxi 3y ago
Calculus isn't that hard, you just find the slope of the tangent. If that doesn't come naturally then business of attaching meaning to the words and training yourself to do the thing is really hard though. Also this list of points is probably wrong. Particularly "Accept yourself as you are and others as they are" is mutually contradictory to things like "Be polite, accept a no as an answer" for many people. jiggawatts is pointing out that if people want to improve themselves useful advice is hard to find. Telling someone who knows that they need to change that they are an ass, need to stop that but simultaneously that they need to accept themselves is unhelpful. In fact, finding the balance between what parts of yourself to accept and what parts need to change (and why) is a complex challenge that is beyond the abilities of most people. The average human just keeps doing what they do unless something traumatic happens.
- hef19898 3y ago
  If you have trouble squaring being ypurself and accepting others with being polite, well, then I agree you have a problem. One that makes relationships of any kind, not just the romantic variety, almost impossible. And no, us humans are not victims of our biology. Since one the few things in the bible I actually agree with, is the whole "god gave humans free will" bit, as intelligent, self-aware animals we can control our actions to an extent. Failing to so actually is a problem, I agree. But that is an individual problem, not a universal one.
  - roenxi 3y ago
    > If you have trouble squaring being ypurself and accepting others with being polite, well, then I agree you have a problem. One that makes relationships of any kind, not just the romantic variety, almost impossible. Call me crazy I suppose, but wouldn't it be a good idea to give people with problems good advice about how to solve their problems? Maybe some sort of community they could go for for good, actionable advice? Because if you walk through what you've just said slowly, it was (1) identified that finding a partner is easy for people who don't have problems finding a partner, and (2) anyone who is having problems is on their own, no need to help them. The thrust of the thinking there lacks a certain empathy. Plan B is being a bit gentler and explaining what they are doing wrong to them using clearer advice than "don't be an ass". That doesn't mean anything concrete and it isn't actionable. It also isn't true, lots of asses have no trouble holding down a partner (usually figuratively, occasionally literally to the general horror of us all if it gets uncovered).
NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
None of these are helpful at all. Maybe they're requirements, but none are sufficient, alone or all together, to help anyone who is looking and not finding a mate. What most adults discover, after college, is that there are few places to find a mate. The only place they will visit with any regularity is work... and even if we ignore the good advice of "don't shit where you eat", work is often a poor environment in which to search for potential mates (maybe especially true at the ages that most are concerned about doing that). In previous eras, where mates were found more quickly, high school and then college were always the best places. High concentrations of other unmarried people your own age or close enough. But that's discouraged today and often impossible anyway given economic reality. It's definitely unwise according to popular opinion. Church might have been another place, but not really for generations at this point. Most aren't religious, and becoming religious isn't easy even if you can somehow set aside any philosophical objections to the dogma or worries at the quality of mates available there. A young man or woman who joins a church for the purpose of finding a mate will often be looked at with disdain and suspicion... anyone eligible at those places probably already has candidates in mind. Courtships tend to be a quick thing, so even if you go there and find a woman or man the right age not yet married, someone else already had them in mind and they were probably less than 12 months away from marriage anyway. You showing up and interfering isn't going to win you any friends. In the 1980s, this might have been solved with bar-hopping. But the AIDS crisis and the end of the sexual revolution hammered the nails into that coffin. It was never a good strategy anyway. And all of this is just one issue that makes it difficult. There are others. Our society isn't currently arranged in a way that is conducive to pairing people up for the long term. And likely, societies that are bad at this don't get to remain societies forever. I suspect rather strongly that they die.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Didn't this whole threat start with claiming female promiscuirity being a problem? Since, apparently, women don't have issues finding partners, there have to be places. Also for people above college age. Regarding bar hopping, going out still is a thing, isn't it? Just one thing so, if bar hopping is only done to pick up women, it might a good thing you stopped doing it, not because of AIDS, but for everyone else going out. Edit: What weird kind of creep goes to church to pick up women? And why do some people think that all social interaction with the opposite sex (gays and lesbians seem not to have that problem) has to be aimed at some kind of sexual / romantic end game? That can happen, as can a real friendship or nothing at all. Approaching it with the goal of sex / dating in mind might actually be part of the problem...

jiggawatts 3y ago

The irony is that you've just said more-or-less the opposite of what is actually the case. This is the equivalent of not teaching chemistry, and then someone who's dabbled in alchemy piping up and saying: "Why bother with all that, it's not that hard, just combine earth and water!" The reality is that the "assholes" get the hottest women. I put that in quotes because that's the superficial impression, not a nuanced statement. It's valid though. There are women who get married to murderers on death row. These are sexy, beautiful women. Meanwhile "nice guys" are single into their thirties and complaining about it on Reddit. Even a casual perusal of either anthropology or evolutionary biology should dissuade you from any such silly Disney(tm) approved notions. Women maximise their reproductive success by partnering with killers. Hunters that are capable of bringing home the bacon, but just short of being psychopaths and killing her and her children. A little bit of violence is acceptable. Being "nice" and "polite" doesn't work. As a random set of examples, people here on HN will generally acknowledge either Trump and/or Elon as being unmitigated asses, right? They've both had multiple wives and a bunch of kids. What does that tell you? Are you going to do chemistry, or alchemy? Magic, or science? Are you getting dating advice from Women's Weekly, or Nature?

hef19898 3y ago
Just take it to Reddit. Man, this discussion turn into a cess pit of frustrated, insecure males venting... No wonder those persons have trouble finding partners...
fsociety 3y ago
Being a “nice guy” does not work. Having confidence, while valuing and respecting women (as they would you) absolutely does.
- harimau777 3y ago
  What about the people who don't have confidence? They should just kill themselves?
  - hef19898 3y ago
    No, why? You have two choices so. Either you try to be a better person, try to build that confidence. Or continue pretending to be a victim and whine about your lot in life. And no, a stelar career, shit ton of money, fame and drop dead looks are not what I meam by that.
    - harimau777 3y ago
      Confidence and social competence aren't a switch that someone can flip just by trying harder. There's tons of men who have spent years trying to become a better person (therapy, self help, communications courses, education, constructive hobbies, etc.) and have nothing to show for it.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        Coming back to my original post, and adding some more details. Point was not being an ass. That means basically two things: Not actively treating people like shit (that can be pretended, something all those pick up artists scum bags do and sell) and unintentionally doing it. The latter is the harder bit, as it involves actually caring and listening to other people. When in company, making it all about yourself is not necessarily being an ass (it can be so), but rather egoistical and unpleasant for the other person. Having years of therapy (!), and nothing to show for, hints, IMHO, at the second issue. No amount of therapy and course work can make you care about someone else as much as you do about yourself, IMHO, because therapy is for you. Ad my grandmother aslways said: every pot has its cover (very bad translation). And she was right. The trick is to not force it, be open, let stuff happen and just not be an ass. Or a self-victimizing whiner, as that can be kind of the opposite end of toxic masculinity and is equally unsexy. But even then, there is someone special out there. As soon as you make a relationship as much about the other person as you do about yourself, are sincere about that, well, a lot of surprising things can happen. Also, you are never done becoming a better human being. Especially since for ech step forward, you will take a couple back at times.
OGWhales 3y ago
> The reality is that the "assholes" get the hottest women. I put that in quotes because that's the superficial impression, not a nuanced statement. It's valid though. There are women who get married to murderers on death row. These are sexy, beautiful women. Meanwhile "nice guys" are single into their thirties and complaining about it on Reddit. I don’t find that to be the reality. Most likely, the “nice guy” has a number of qualities that are off-putting to potential partners and the “asshole” is only perceived as such by the “nice guy”. I don’t mean to say assholes don’t find partners, they do, but the general perception of “the asshole always gets the girl” seems more like a sophomoric projection of jealously than reality. > Being "nice" and "polite" doesn't work. As a random set of examples, people here on HN will generally acknowledge either Trump and/or Elon as being unmitigated asses, right? They've both had multiple wives and a bunch of kids. > What does that tell you? Not much… I mean it’s not news that rich and powerful men have an easy time finding people. But tbh, all walks of life have partners. Tons of nice, polite people have partners, yet you ignore those examples for some reason and claim that “doesn’t work”. I suspect the root issue is a jealously/confusion/frustration that an ass like Trump can find women but you have yet to have the same luck. The reality is that it’s possible for pretty much anyone to find a partner and it doesn’t mean much. Being a likable person will give you the best chance, regardless of how many assholes happen to find people. Perhaps the only useful lesson from observing assholes having success is that assholes tend to have confidence and don’t care what others think, making them more likely to put themselves in a position to find a partner without fear of rejection.

ninkendo 3y ago

You don't think attractiveness plays a role at all? Like, doesn't even make your list? Your list is the kind of thing an attractive (or at least, not hideously unattractive) person would say while being completely oblivious to the issues a good chunk of the population face.

hef19898 3y ago
Attractiveness is a) subjective and b) nothing one can influence (unless you talk about hardcore surgery). My points are those people have a lot more agency over.
- ninkendo 3y ago
  Sure, those points people have agency over. But the error in reasoning happens when you say those points add up to “Finding a partner isn't actually that hard”. You’re forgetting that there are things people have no agency over, which makes finding a partner very hard indeed.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    No, it actually is not. It really isn't. If you aim for either Margot Robbie or Ryan Gossling you are making it harder yourself. Most Incels so maybe celibate, but it is, considering how they see and treat women to how they see the world and society, totally voluntarily and self inflicted. Also, whining about how hard your life is, how you are not able to achieve your goals because of things outside of your control is a huge turn off, regardless of how your face or body looks like.
    - harimau777 3y ago
      Just because something isn't difficult for you doesn't mean it isn't extraordinarily difficult for others. If someone's neurodivergent, was raised in a sheltered environment, or just isn't good at social interaction, then that can often be a nearly insurmountable barrier.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

roenxi 3y ago

Calculus isn't that hard, you just find the slope of the tangent. If that doesn't come naturally then business of attaching meaning to the words and training yourself to do the thing is really hard though. Also this list of points is probably wrong. Particularly "Accept yourself as you are and others as they are" is mutually contradictory to things like "Be polite, accept a no as an answer" for many people. jiggawatts is pointing out that if people want to improve themselves useful advice is hard to find. Telling someone who knows that they need to change that they are an ass, need to stop that but simultaneously that they need to accept themselves is unhelpful. In fact, finding the balance between what parts of yourself to accept and what parts need to change (and why) is a complex challenge that is beyond the abilities of most people. The average human just keeps doing what they do unless something traumatic happens.

hef19898 3y ago
If you have trouble squaring being ypurself and accepting others with being polite, well, then I agree you have a problem. One that makes relationships of any kind, not just the romantic variety, almost impossible. And no, us humans are not victims of our biology. Since one the few things in the bible I actually agree with, is the whole "god gave humans free will" bit, as intelligent, self-aware animals we can control our actions to an extent. Failing to so actually is a problem, I agree. But that is an individual problem, not a universal one.
- roenxi 3y ago
  > If you have trouble squaring being ypurself and accepting others with being polite, well, then I agree you have a problem. One that makes relationships of any kind, not just the romantic variety, almost impossible. Call me crazy I suppose, but wouldn't it be a good idea to give people with problems good advice about how to solve their problems? Maybe some sort of community they could go for for good, actionable advice? Because if you walk through what you've just said slowly, it was (1) identified that finding a partner is easy for people who don't have problems finding a partner, and (2) anyone who is having problems is on their own, no need to help them. The thrust of the thinking there lacks a certain empathy. Plan B is being a bit gentler and explaining what they are doing wrong to them using clearer advice than "don't be an ass". That doesn't mean anything concrete and it isn't actionable. It also isn't true, lots of asses have no trouble holding down a partner (usually figuratively, occasionally literally to the general horror of us all if it gets uncovered).

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

None of these are helpful at all. Maybe they're requirements, but none are sufficient, alone or all together, to help anyone who is looking and not finding a mate. What most adults discover, after college, is that there are few places to find a mate. The only place they will visit with any regularity is work... and even if we ignore the good advice of "don't shit where you eat", work is often a poor environment in which to search for potential mates (maybe especially true at the ages that most are concerned about doing that). In previous eras, where mates were found more quickly, high school and then college were always the best places. High concentrations of other unmarried people your own age or close enough. But that's discouraged today and often impossible anyway given economic reality. It's definitely unwise according to popular opinion. Church might have been another place, but not really for generations at this point. Most aren't religious, and becoming religious isn't easy even if you can somehow set aside any philosophical objections to the dogma or worries at the quality of mates available there. A young man or woman who joins a church for the purpose of finding a mate will often be looked at with disdain and suspicion... anyone eligible at those places probably already has candidates in mind. Courtships tend to be a quick thing, so even if you go there and find a woman or man the right age not yet married, someone else already had them in mind and they were probably less than 12 months away from marriage anyway. You showing up and interfering isn't going to win you any friends. In the 1980s, this might have been solved with bar-hopping. But the AIDS crisis and the end of the sexual revolution hammered the nails into that coffin. It was never a good strategy anyway. And all of this is just one issue that makes it difficult. There are others. Our society isn't currently arranged in a way that is conducive to pairing people up for the long term. And likely, societies that are bad at this don't get to remain societies forever. I suspect rather strongly that they die.

hef19898 3y ago
Didn't this whole threat start with claiming female promiscuirity being a problem? Since, apparently, women don't have issues finding partners, there have to be places. Also for people above college age. Regarding bar hopping, going out still is a thing, isn't it? Just one thing so, if bar hopping is only done to pick up women, it might a good thing you stopped doing it, not because of AIDS, but for everyone else going out. Edit: What weird kind of creep goes to church to pick up women? And why do some people think that all social interaction with the opposite sex (gays and lesbians seem not to have that problem) has to be aimed at some kind of sexual / romantic end game? That can happen, as can a real friendship or nothing at all. Approaching it with the goal of sex / dating in mind might actually be part of the problem...