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Not everything that makes you uncomfortable or embarrassed about your state is a conspiracy theory. Sometimes the state really does commit crimes on its popula

Not everything that makes you uncomfortable or embarrassed about your state is a conspiracy theory. Sometimes the state really does commit crimes on its populace, and in this particular case - where there's smoke, there's fire. The CIA shouldn't be in the medical experiment business. Period. That citizens are willing to let it get away with murder is bad enough.

aa1234556 3y ago
[dead]
thumbuddy 3y ago
They and other agencies are also involved in the psychological experiment business. Historically and probably currently. All the data they've got these days and various means to interact with their subjects is probably pretty wild.
- boffinAudio 3y ago
  Considering that the CIA is a highly secretive over-funded organization that was built by ex-Nazi's, these developments are indeed a matter of major concern, and one should not be dissuaded by the CIA's "conspiracy theorist" agitprop from investigating and prosecuting their vast and heinous crimes against humanity. Period.
  - msla 3y ago
    > the CIA's "conspiracy theorist" agitprop What's your actual claim here? "Everything anyone comes up with about the CIA is either true or invented by the CIA to make people think people like me are insane"? Do you think there's any room for honest weirdos to make idiotic claims about a famous entity? Because there's a well-characterized disease which induces people to do pretty much exactly that, and it's existed since long before the CIA, the OSS, or America were even conceived of.
    - boffinAudio 3y ago
      I do not concur with this limited dialectic/materialist mode of thought. Alas, conspiracies are not necessary - there is more than enough real evidence of the CIA having committed heinous crimes against humanity without having to resort to some sort of neurotic episode to describe it. The characterization of the CIA as an honorable institution above reproach is just as fallacious as the idea that everyone who questions its actions is a nutcase. As an organization the CIA has a very long and sordid well-known and documented history of committing acts that most reasonable people would find extremely difficult to justify - not so, the nationalists, who incidentally are also inflicted with a well-characterized mental disorder deserving treatment. But whenever someone starts pulling on those threads of evidence to see where they lead, they are immediately confronted with the "conspiracy theorist" agitprop that is designed to stop further critical thought on the subject and protect the agency involved, which has after all spent billions shrouding itself in secrecy and subterfuge in order to protect itself from the democratic principles of justice that it works so hard to prevent its host society from effectively applying to itself. "Honest weirdos" don't need to theorize. They need to prosecute in a free and open society, the very real war criminals and committers of crimes against humanity who have helmed the CIA and who have destroyed countless societies around the world in order to enact their vile ideology. Just by way of a simple example, the fact that the American people haven't prosecuted Gina Haspel and sent her off to rot in chains in The Hague for her heinously vile torture programs is ample evidence that, indeed, the conspiracy theorists are all we have left...
      - msla 3y ago
        > As an organization the CIA has a very long and sordid well-known and documented history of committing acts that most reasonable people would find extremely difficult to justify - not so, the nationalists, who incidentally are also inflicted with a well-characterized mental disorder deserving treatment. Nationalism, while annoying, isn't a mental disorder, and we should refrain from medicalizing everything we disagree with, as that is certainly a trait of horrible organizations. (see: "sluggishly-progressing schizophrenia" in the USSR) Also, "they did bad things in the past so they did this specific bad thing" is a fallacy, or at least a jump into illogic: Just because someone stole a car doesn't mean they stole every car that got stolen in the past thirty years, or that they stole your car in specific. It doesn't follow. > But whenever someone starts pulling on those threads of evidence to see where they lead, they are immediately confronted with the "conspiracy theorist" agitprop They're not. You're stating something that's simply not the case. Yes, the CIA has done horrible things. However, people who point this out aren't called crazy until they begin to say things like the CIA used nanothermite C4 to do 9/11 on the orders of the Jewish Reptilians, or that the CIA steals my thoughts and infects me with horrible compulsions. There's a line between known events and possible events, on one hand, and blatant nonsense, on the other.
msla 3y ago
> Not everything that makes you uncomfortable or embarrassed about your state is a conspiracy theory. This is a great thought-stopping cliche to prevent people from realizing they've bought into some dumb ideas. "I can't be wrong, all of the people saying so are just ignorant hyper-patriots!"
- boffinAudio 3y ago
  Touché. As we who follow this subject know too well, every empirical dialectic has its antipode. And in the middle we will meet, use our free and open societies properly, and provide justice to the victims of the most criminal group that ever existed on Earth. We just need more eyeballs - conspiracy theorists or concerned fellow citizen, or otherwise - on the subject. And that's precisely why shutting down the narrative is such an imperative. Nobody wants to really confront the most embarrassing crimes against humanity committed by their state, especially given they happen every twenty minutes or so, unhindered by democratic principles...
mycologos 3y ago
I agree that the CIA shouldn't be in the medical experiment business. There are good explanations of terrible things the CIA has done. But not every bad thing said about the CIA deserves credence simply by virtue of being a bad thing about the CIA.
- boffinAudio 3y ago
  The CIA is responsible for a LOT of bad things. This is not a conspiracy theory. Therefore as an agency it should not be elevated in any way - it should, in fact, have to answer for these crimes - whether they were discovered and revealed by a conspiracy theorist, or by Congress itself. Often, one cannot proceed without the actions of the other...

aa1234556 3y ago

[dead]

thumbuddy 3y ago

They and other agencies are also involved in the psychological experiment business. Historically and probably currently. All the data they've got these days and various means to interact with their subjects is probably pretty wild.

boffinAudio 3y ago
Considering that the CIA is a highly secretive over-funded organization that was built by ex-Nazi's, these developments are indeed a matter of major concern, and one should not be dissuaded by the CIA's "conspiracy theorist" agitprop from investigating and prosecuting their vast and heinous crimes against humanity. Period.
- msla 3y ago
  > the CIA's "conspiracy theorist" agitprop What's your actual claim here? "Everything anyone comes up with about the CIA is either true or invented by the CIA to make people think people like me are insane"? Do you think there's any room for honest weirdos to make idiotic claims about a famous entity? Because there's a well-characterized disease which induces people to do pretty much exactly that, and it's existed since long before the CIA, the OSS, or America were even conceived of.
  - boffinAudio 3y ago
    I do not concur with this limited dialectic/materialist mode of thought. Alas, conspiracies are not necessary - there is more than enough real evidence of the CIA having committed heinous crimes against humanity without having to resort to some sort of neurotic episode to describe it. The characterization of the CIA as an honorable institution above reproach is just as fallacious as the idea that everyone who questions its actions is a nutcase. As an organization the CIA has a very long and sordid well-known and documented history of committing acts that most reasonable people would find extremely difficult to justify - not so, the nationalists, who incidentally are also inflicted with a well-characterized mental disorder deserving treatment. But whenever someone starts pulling on those threads of evidence to see where they lead, they are immediately confronted with the "conspiracy theorist" agitprop that is designed to stop further critical thought on the subject and protect the agency involved, which has after all spent billions shrouding itself in secrecy and subterfuge in order to protect itself from the democratic principles of justice that it works so hard to prevent its host society from effectively applying to itself. "Honest weirdos" don't need to theorize. They need to prosecute in a free and open society, the very real war criminals and committers of crimes against humanity who have helmed the CIA and who have destroyed countless societies around the world in order to enact their vile ideology. Just by way of a simple example, the fact that the American people haven't prosecuted Gina Haspel and sent her off to rot in chains in The Hague for her heinously vile torture programs is ample evidence that, indeed, the conspiracy theorists are all we have left...
    - msla 3y ago
      > As an organization the CIA has a very long and sordid well-known and documented history of committing acts that most reasonable people would find extremely difficult to justify - not so, the nationalists, who incidentally are also inflicted with a well-characterized mental disorder deserving treatment. Nationalism, while annoying, isn't a mental disorder, and we should refrain from medicalizing everything we disagree with, as that is certainly a trait of horrible organizations. (see: "sluggishly-progressing schizophrenia" in the USSR) Also, "they did bad things in the past so they did this specific bad thing" is a fallacy, or at least a jump into illogic: Just because someone stole a car doesn't mean they stole every car that got stolen in the past thirty years, or that they stole your car in specific. It doesn't follow. > But whenever someone starts pulling on those threads of evidence to see where they lead, they are immediately confronted with the "conspiracy theorist" agitprop They're not. You're stating something that's simply not the case. Yes, the CIA has done horrible things. However, people who point this out aren't called crazy until they begin to say things like the CIA used nanothermite C4 to do 9/11 on the orders of the Jewish Reptilians, or that the CIA steals my thoughts and infects me with horrible compulsions. There's a line between known events and possible events, on one hand, and blatant nonsense, on the other.

msla 3y ago

> Not everything that makes you uncomfortable or embarrassed about your state is a conspiracy theory. This is a great thought-stopping cliche to prevent people from realizing they've bought into some dumb ideas. "I can't be wrong, all of the people saying so are just ignorant hyper-patriots!"

boffinAudio 3y ago
Touché. As we who follow this subject know too well, every empirical dialectic has its antipode. And in the middle we will meet, use our free and open societies properly, and provide justice to the victims of the most criminal group that ever existed on Earth. We just need more eyeballs - conspiracy theorists or concerned fellow citizen, or otherwise - on the subject. And that's precisely why shutting down the narrative is such an imperative. Nobody wants to really confront the most embarrassing crimes against humanity committed by their state, especially given they happen every twenty minutes or so, unhindered by democratic principles...

mycologos 3y ago

I agree that the CIA shouldn't be in the medical experiment business. There are good explanations of terrible things the CIA has done. But not every bad thing said about the CIA deserves credence simply by virtue of being a bad thing about the CIA.

boffinAudio 3y ago
The CIA is responsible for a LOT of bad things. This is not a conspiracy theory. Therefore as an agency it should not be elevated in any way - it should, in fact, have to answer for these crimes - whether they were discovered and revealed by a conspiracy theorist, or by Congress itself. Often, one cannot proceed without the actions of the other...