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Personally I feel like the reason behind the change is obvious. Pornography is everywhere. People don't get their kicks from 1970s movie love scenes anymore bec

Personally I feel like the reason behind the change is obvious. Pornography is everywhere. People don't get their kicks from 1970s movie love scenes anymore because hardcore fetish videos are a few clicks away. The same way boys no longer lust after the lingerie section of the Sears catalog. But the culture carries this at-will objectification as bleedover into everything else. And I think it's also why the youngest generation right now is fixated on knowing their exact, granular label for sexual identity and orientation, even though young people are having less sex than they've ever had.

tmikaeld 3y ago
I agree, there's no mystery or effort needed that builds up lust any more.
- nmz 3y ago
  That's a genre problem, porn is by its definition explosive, too fast to develop anything emotionally, erotica however builds up but it is harder to fund, there is an outlier though, 50 shades, however, for 50 shades to get funding it had to be a best seller for a while, released as an ebook at first. So unless you reach such a level you probably wont be funded, which only exacerbates current puritanical trends.
  - tmikaeld 3y ago
    I find this odd, considering the success of 50 shades and the huge amount of female erotica written in books, there should be a large incentive for pouring money on shows for all of that readily available material. I'm a man and even I find the books more alluring than 99% of what's on TV/Movies.
Nursie 3y ago
I think it's that and a sort of equal-and-opposite prudishness reaction - those sex scenes no longer fly in mainstream movies, they are generally described as exploitative of the actors (particularly women) and inappropriate in various ways. To paraphrase something I read on the daily mash - OK, sure, you young folks feel free to shame us gen Xers for getting our teenage kicks from a glimpse of breast in 'that scene' in an action movie... but in the 80s and 90s we didn't have a device in our pocket that could show us the most extreme filth at the touch of a button. (That all said, nudity does seem to have had a big resurgence in tv in recent years)
- lupire 3y ago
  Queer movies aren't afraid of romantic sex.
- jawngee 3y ago
  Filth is an interesting word.
  - Nursie 3y ago
    British colloquialism!
  - badwolf 3y ago
    One of John Waters' favorites.
ptidhomme 3y ago
This. Instant porn is the elephant in the room. Some refuse to acknowledge it, some don't dare.
- abwizz 3y ago
  idk. althou the instantaneousness is a newish thing, erotic art is definetly not and jacking off is not even exclusive to humans. thou i cannot see how internet porn could go away w/o also taking free speech along with it.
  - pjc50 3y ago
    > thou i cannot see how internet porn could go away w/o also taking free speech along with it For some reason, very few of even the most vehement "n-word and genocide advocacy are free speech" advocates think that porn is free speech.
    - abwizz 3y ago
      so what?
- WA 3y ago
  The elephant in the room might actually be US-American prudery. But to confirm, we'd have to check if prudery became stronger in the last 20 years and if non-US movies have still the same (or more) amount of sex in it. But it's actually a well-known meme in the rest of the world that entertainment from the US has no problem depicting violence, but god beware you see the nipple of a woman... Game of Thrones was extremely unique and "Non-American" for the nudeness and many sex scenes.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    MPAA is still controlled by a vague group of older christian people and the movie ratings reflect that. Like the fact that a PG-13 movie (IIRC) can get a single "fuck", not two. Just one. Violence is fine, you just can't show its effects (no blood no matter how much you get beaten, bloody scrapes seem to be A-OK). Sex and sexuality are absolutely banned in every way.
crazygringo 3y ago
Yup. And there's a similar theory that both big comedy movies and comedy sitcoms have been largely disappearing because people are getting their comedy fixes from YouTube and TikTok now. So when they go to the movies or pull up Netflix, almost all the new stuff being produced is drama. (Comedies haven't died out completely, but proportionally they're far, far less than they used to be.)
- local_issues 3y ago
  I agree but I also think that comedy is too risky for Netflix. Look at the Chappelle shitshow, and that was over something that was agreed on by ~100% of America 10 years ago. There's always someone willing to crybully, so why bother? And, counter to that, if there's always someone offended, why not be Sam Hyde? Offend everyone, fuckit.
  - lupire 3y ago
    Drama is offensive too. Cuties raised an uproar.
dogleash 3y ago
Your explanation relies on the idea that any nudity in movies is exclusively for the purpose of gratuitous titillation. I don't think that's true, nor does it explain the decline in portraying the non-physical intimacy in relationships. >The same way boys no longer lust after the lingerie section of the Sears catalog. The Sears catalog wasn't replaced by porn, it was replaced by insta/tiktok thirst traps.
- abwizz 3y ago
  > The Sears catalog wasn't replaced by porn, it was replaced by insta/tiktok thirst traps. imo there was a span of about twenty years of online erotica in between before the user-generated variant became ubiqutious on mainstream platforms. but i agree that "thirst" or "desire erotica" is a different beast than explicit pornography
worrycue 3y ago
Doesn’t explain the lack of romance though - which sex (or at least the expression of desire for) usually comes with. I can understand holding back on the PDA if you are making an evening TV shows watched together by families. But in PG-13 movies?
lupire 3y ago
I don't think those two are connected. Yes, we have access to directly sexual targeted imagery , so there's no need to cram it into everything else. That's good. But that's not related to today's super specific and fluid sexual identities. People aren't sampling the gullt buffet of sexuality and making their precise choice of their perfect blend. They are making guesses, guessing more wildly now that they have more than 2 options to pick from, and now that it's not taboo to explore, so teens being teens, who are constantly searching for an identity, now can include sexuality in that search.
bardan 3y ago
Yeah. I feel like Western cinema right now could use a movement like the Pinky movies of 80's/90's Japan - cheap, titillating, often thoughtful art movies that were also basically softcore pornography.
rg111 3y ago
Porn and beautiful women in movies are very different things. For example, look at Lindsay Lohan in Mean Girls or Alicia Silverstone in Clueless. That, and porn are very differently appealing, and almost surely have very different audiences.

tmikaeld 3y ago

I agree, there's no mystery or effort needed that builds up lust any more.

nmz 3y ago
That's a genre problem, porn is by its definition explosive, too fast to develop anything emotionally, erotica however builds up but it is harder to fund, there is an outlier though, 50 shades, however, for 50 shades to get funding it had to be a best seller for a while, released as an ebook at first. So unless you reach such a level you probably wont be funded, which only exacerbates current puritanical trends.
- tmikaeld 3y ago
  I find this odd, considering the success of 50 shades and the huge amount of female erotica written in books, there should be a large incentive for pouring money on shows for all of that readily available material. I'm a man and even I find the books more alluring than 99% of what's on TV/Movies.

Nursie 3y ago

I think it's that and a sort of equal-and-opposite prudishness reaction - those sex scenes no longer fly in mainstream movies, they are generally described as exploitative of the actors (particularly women) and inappropriate in various ways. To paraphrase something I read on the daily mash - OK, sure, you young folks feel free to shame us gen Xers for getting our teenage kicks from a glimpse of breast in 'that scene' in an action movie... but in the 80s and 90s we didn't have a device in our pocket that could show us the most extreme filth at the touch of a button. (That all said, nudity does seem to have had a big resurgence in tv in recent years)

lupire 3y ago
Queer movies aren't afraid of romantic sex.
jawngee 3y ago
Filth is an interesting word.
- Nursie 3y ago
  British colloquialism!
- badwolf 3y ago
  One of John Waters' favorites.

ptidhomme 3y ago

This. Instant porn is the elephant in the room. Some refuse to acknowledge it, some don't dare.

abwizz 3y ago
idk. althou the instantaneousness is a newish thing, erotic art is definetly not and jacking off is not even exclusive to humans. thou i cannot see how internet porn could go away w/o also taking free speech along with it.
- pjc50 3y ago
  > thou i cannot see how internet porn could go away w/o also taking free speech along with it For some reason, very few of even the most vehement "n-word and genocide advocacy are free speech" advocates think that porn is free speech.
  - abwizz 3y ago
    so what?
WA 3y ago
The elephant in the room might actually be US-American prudery. But to confirm, we'd have to check if prudery became stronger in the last 20 years and if non-US movies have still the same (or more) amount of sex in it. But it's actually a well-known meme in the rest of the world that entertainment from the US has no problem depicting violence, but god beware you see the nipple of a woman... Game of Thrones was extremely unique and "Non-American" for the nudeness and many sex scenes.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  MPAA is still controlled by a vague group of older christian people and the movie ratings reflect that. Like the fact that a PG-13 movie (IIRC) can get a single "fuck", not two. Just one. Violence is fine, you just can't show its effects (no blood no matter how much you get beaten, bloody scrapes seem to be A-OK). Sex and sexuality are absolutely banned in every way.

crazygringo 3y ago

Yup. And there's a similar theory that both big comedy movies and comedy sitcoms have been largely disappearing because people are getting their comedy fixes from YouTube and TikTok now. So when they go to the movies or pull up Netflix, almost all the new stuff being produced is drama. (Comedies haven't died out completely, but proportionally they're far, far less than they used to be.)

local_issues 3y ago
I agree but I also think that comedy is too risky for Netflix. Look at the Chappelle shitshow, and that was over something that was agreed on by ~100% of America 10 years ago. There's always someone willing to crybully, so why bother? And, counter to that, if there's always someone offended, why not be Sam Hyde? Offend everyone, fuckit.
- lupire 3y ago
  Drama is offensive too. Cuties raised an uproar.

dogleash 3y ago

Your explanation relies on the idea that any nudity in movies is exclusively for the purpose of gratuitous titillation. I don't think that's true, nor does it explain the decline in portraying the non-physical intimacy in relationships. >The same way boys no longer lust after the lingerie section of the Sears catalog. The Sears catalog wasn't replaced by porn, it was replaced by insta/tiktok thirst traps.

abwizz 3y ago
> The Sears catalog wasn't replaced by porn, it was replaced by insta/tiktok thirst traps. imo there was a span of about twenty years of online erotica in between before the user-generated variant became ubiqutious on mainstream platforms. but i agree that "thirst" or "desire erotica" is a different beast than explicit pornography

worrycue 3y ago

Doesn’t explain the lack of romance though - which sex (or at least the expression of desire for) usually comes with. I can understand holding back on the PDA if you are making an evening TV shows watched together by families. But in PG-13 movies?

lupire 3y ago

I don't think those two are connected. Yes, we have access to directly sexual targeted imagery , so there's no need to cram it into everything else. That's good. But that's not related to today's super specific and fluid sexual identities. People aren't sampling the gullt buffet of sexuality and making their precise choice of their perfect blend. They are making guesses, guessing more wildly now that they have more than 2 options to pick from, and now that it's not taboo to explore, so teens being teens, who are constantly searching for an identity, now can include sexuality in that search.

bardan 3y ago

Yeah. I feel like Western cinema right now could use a movement like the Pinky movies of 80's/90's Japan - cheap, titillating, often thoughtful art movies that were also basically softcore pornography.

rg111 3y ago

Porn and beautiful women in movies are very different things. For example, look at Lindsay Lohan in Mean Girls or Alicia Silverstone in Clueless. That, and porn are very differently appealing, and almost surely have very different audiences.