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As a linguistic category it includes teineigo and set phrases, but when a JP learner says keigo they probably mean the stuff introduced the "keigo" chapters of

As a linguistic category it includes teineigo and set phrases, but when a JP learner says keigo they probably mean the stuff introduced the "keigo" chapters of JP textbooks, which starts with おっしゃる, 下さる, いただく, お～になる and so on. And again, those are everyday usages that are perfectly reasonable for even an intermediate learner to want to practice (and the person you replied to may be beyond intermediate). Sure there's also lots of other keigo that most learners would rarely encounter, but that's no reason to jump all over someone who says they want to practice it - you wouldn't tell someone not to bother with kanji just because there are characters they'll never need.

csa 3y ago
> … which starts with おっしゃる, 下さる, いただく, お～になる and so on. And again, those are everyday usages that are perfectly reasonable for even an intermediate learner to want to practice Serious question… Unless this “intermediate learner” works in a Japanese-language position (like a 会社員), is a diplomat, or is involved in a traditional art (or these types of relatively rare categories), in what context would they ever produce utterances using any of these words appropriately and naturally? This is just not the type of language that intermediate learners need to produce very often. When they do, their organization will most likely train them beforehand, use an interpreter, or just not care. I lived in Japan 8 years, and I worked in a Japanese-language environment. I’m pretty sure the times I had the opportunity to use any of the words you listed appropriately could probably be counted on my fingers and maybe extending to my toes. Granted, I was not in a position of power (those folks used keigo all the time), and I was not directly involved in any highish stakes negotiations or business transactions (e.g., didn’t buy a house) but still…
- fenomas 3y ago
  > in what context would they ever produce utterances using any of these words appropriately and naturally? Part-time job? Friends or in-laws they'd like to impress? Studying for JLPT? Just wanting to be able to speak everyday Japanese as it's spoken? Respectfully, I really think you have a distorted sense of this due to whatever your background is. Per a quick google, some of the terms I listed earlier show up in JLPT from level 3. I'm no expert but I don't think N3 is considered high-level diplomacy territory. If you got by here without using such terms that's fine, but it's no argument against studying them - lots of people get by without learning kanji, etc.

csa 3y ago

> … which starts with おっしゃる, 下さる, いただく, お～になる and so on. And again, those are everyday usages that are perfectly reasonable for even an intermediate learner to want to practice Serious question… Unless this “intermediate learner” works in a Japanese-language position (like a 会社員), is a diplomat, or is involved in a traditional art (or these types of relatively rare categories), in what context would they ever produce utterances using any of these words appropriately and naturally? This is just not the type of language that intermediate learners need to produce very often. When they do, their organization will most likely train them beforehand, use an interpreter, or just not care. I lived in Japan 8 years, and I worked in a Japanese-language environment. I’m pretty sure the times I had the opportunity to use any of the words you listed appropriately could probably be counted on my fingers and maybe extending to my toes. Granted, I was not in a position of power (those folks used keigo all the time), and I was not directly involved in any highish stakes negotiations or business transactions (e.g., didn’t buy a house) but still…

fenomas 3y ago
> in what context would they ever produce utterances using any of these words appropriately and naturally? Part-time job? Friends or in-laws they'd like to impress? Studying for JLPT? Just wanting to be able to speak everyday Japanese as it's spoken? Respectfully, I really think you have a distorted sense of this due to whatever your background is. Per a quick google, some of the terms I listed earlier show up in JLPT from level 3. I'm no expert but I don't think N3 is considered high-level diplomacy territory. If you got by here without using such terms that's fine, but it's no argument against studying them - lots of people get by without learning kanji, etc.