3 ms·

> Building new catenary systems can be expensive (anywhere between $1M-$5M/mile in the US) Can you just hire Japan Rail to build it for you, then?

lmm 3y ago
The problem is political dysfunction at higher levels. California tried hiring SNCF to build their high speed rail, but that fell apart because what California wanted was impossible and didn't make sense. (SNCF built a line in Morocco instead)
- mitthrowaway2 3y ago
  Is that dysfunction specific to catenary systems? Would H2 or battery-based systems be less politically dysfunctional?
  - lmm 3y ago
    It certainly seems to be at its worst when it comes to anything that involves building. So technologies that can run on existing lines without modification might find it easier to run the regulatory gauntlet even if objectively inferior. (See e.g. Los Angeles' sunshade-on-a-pole because it's illegal to build a bus shelter)
  - bluGill 3y ago
    It is political, anything will have that issue. CA politically chose the route without considering geography.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > California tried hiring SNCF to build their high speed rail, but that fell apart because what California wanted was impossible and didn't make sense The third-party claims about the SNCF proposal mutated a lot in response to evidence that seemed to contradict them, the most recent form of it acknowledging that SNCF publicly supported the CV alignment that the story says they later opposed, and also paints the opposition coming after federal funding waa committed under ARRA tied specifically to specific projects in the Central Valley alignment that SNCF America was said to have then opposed.
TylerE 3y ago
It's hardly a US, or a recent thing. When the UK electrified the East Coast Mainline in the 80s, that cost an inflation-adjusted GBP 600M, for 397 route miles. At that time 1 GBP was approx 1.5 USD. Using 1.5, that's $2.26M/mile. PS: Even in Japan, almost all freight travels by diesel to this day... they run on separate tracks to the passenger trains, although freight in general in Japan is less important since they don't have much bulk cargo, being a major exporter of neither food nor minerals.

lmm 3y ago

The problem is political dysfunction at higher levels. California tried hiring SNCF to build their high speed rail, but that fell apart because what California wanted was impossible and didn't make sense. (SNCF built a line in Morocco instead)

mitthrowaway2 3y ago
Is that dysfunction specific to catenary systems? Would H2 or battery-based systems be less politically dysfunctional?
- lmm 3y ago
  It certainly seems to be at its worst when it comes to anything that involves building. So technologies that can run on existing lines without modification might find it easier to run the regulatory gauntlet even if objectively inferior. (See e.g. Los Angeles' sunshade-on-a-pole because it's illegal to build a bus shelter)
- bluGill 3y ago
  It is political, anything will have that issue. CA politically chose the route without considering geography.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> California tried hiring SNCF to build their high speed rail, but that fell apart because what California wanted was impossible and didn't make sense The third-party claims about the SNCF proposal mutated a lot in response to evidence that seemed to contradict them, the most recent form of it acknowledging that SNCF publicly supported the CV alignment that the story says they later opposed, and also paints the opposition coming after federal funding waa committed under ARRA tied specifically to specific projects in the Central Valley alignment that SNCF America was said to have then opposed.

TylerE 3y ago

It's hardly a US, or a recent thing. When the UK electrified the East Coast Mainline in the 80s, that cost an inflation-adjusted GBP 600M, for 397 route miles. At that time 1 GBP was approx 1.5 USD. Using 1.5, that's $2.26M/mile. PS: Even in Japan, almost all freight travels by diesel to this day... they run on separate tracks to the passenger trains, although freight in general in Japan is less important since they don't have much bulk cargo, being a major exporter of neither food nor minerals.